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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

Meadmaker said:
I never understand the line of thinking that says that a law is ineffective if it doesn't work in 100% of all instances.

It's true. Mass shootings are still possible. Germany has very strict gun controls, and yet there was a mass shooting in Germany barely a decade ago.
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Well I agree. My point is though will more laws stop mass shootings?
 
Rat said:
You do have that right. The question was whether you should. Unless you think that this right is self-evident and universally true.
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Which, given my avatar, I think you probably know where I stand on that issue.
 
Dcdrac said:
restriciting high cailbre weapons to firing ranges under lock and key is another good move.
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Hard to say if this would have been an effective deterrent (factually, the weapons used in this incident were small, light calibre firearms anyway).

People have deliberately been shot and killed at firing ranges. There have even been suicides.

This guy initially murdered his own mother which indicates to me a rather high level of determination...
 
Quad4_72 said:
But again that raises the question, what is the answer to all this? Connecticut has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country, so I have trouble believing tighter gun control will be the solution.
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Well the problem on Friday wasn't the legal gun owner, it was the fact that her son had access to her weapons. I believe in the Jonesboro shooting, the boys stole the guns from one of their grandfathers? Every time a nice, law-abiding citizen owns weapons, there are other people around who may get hold of them.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Quite a few actually:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
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And then you see the US has an entire page to itself which is much longer than the list for the rest of the world...

And yet you still can't even slightly change your preferred hobby to be on a firing range rather than sometimes with your buddies on a farm?

Obviously such restrictions wouldn't stop all future massacres (no measures will ever manage to fully eradicate mass killings). But maybe it would prevent a couple? And wouldn't that be preferable?
 
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Dcdrac said:
No oe has ever shown me a plausible reason for civillians to have access to semi automatic and automatic weapons.

You do need a M16 copy to hunt a deer.
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The Supreme court ruled in Heller that an individual has a right to possess a firearm for self defense.

Sporting use was not the litmus test for the legality of the firearm in question.

AR platform rifles are used extensively in three-gun matches:

http://www.3gunmatch.com/

And is used in the Service Rifle class of the National Match target shooting

http://www.odcmp.com/competitions/rulebook.pdf
 
Quad4_72 said:
As diverse as the different states are, that would not be practical in many places. For example, My buddy and I used to shoot at his farm all the time on weekends.
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That's a curious use of the word "practical". I think laws can sometimes be practical even if they inconvenience you personally.

Also, I personally believe we have the right to keep firearms in our home.
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That's nice. We're currently discussing whether you should have that right. Maybe you shouldn't?
 
Autolite said:
People have deliberately been shot and killed at firing ranges. There have even been suicides.
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This whole thread is just getting stupid now.

Nobody doubts there have been gun related injuries and deaths at firing ranges because... there are GUNS there. We are trying to discuss ways of keeping these guns away from people who might use them to attack a school.
It's hard to know how you could have missed the point any harder.

More and more the argument is becoming clearer - for some people it seems to boil down to 'look we just like guns and like having them around'.
 
THE US is awash with guns so its going to be difficult to change that hwoever a reasoable start is:

1. Stop all sales of Automatics and Semi Automatics to civillians there is no plausilbe reasonable reason for civilians to have those.

2. Restrict guns to licenced fire ranges where they can be kept safely.
 
iknownothing said:
Well the problem on Friday wasn't the legal gun owner, it was the fact that her son had access to her weapons. I believe in the Jonesboro shooting, the boys stole the guns from one of their grandfathers? Every time a nice, law-abiding citizen owns weapons, there are other people around who may get hold of them.
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There are some commenting here that advocate severe restrictions, if not abolition, with respect to private firearm ownership specifically BECAUSE they can be stolen and used in a criminal manner.

Interesting can of worms. I am curious as to how far such rationale would be applied...
 
JihadJane said:
And your glorification of violence and guns.
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Identify a single post where I have "Glorified" guns and violence. More specifically violence please.

They rather pale into insignificance when you look at the US list!
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Yes, the US list is much longer. But it's not like it doesn't happen elsewhere, as you previously suggested.
 
Ashles said:
And then you see the US has an entire page to itself which is much longer than the list for the rest of the world...

And yet you still can't even slightly change your preferred hobby to be on a firing range rather than sometimes with your buddies on a farm?

Obviously such restrictions wouldn't stop all future massacres (no measures will ever manage to fully eradicate mass killings). But maybe it would prevent a couple? And wouldn't that be preferable?
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Ranges cost money, and many times are out of the way. You really think my rifle on a farm is the problem here?
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
That's a curious use of the word "practical". I think laws can sometimes be practical even if they inconvenience you personally.



That's nice. We're currently discussing whether you should have that right. Maybe you shouldn't?
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No, I believe I should. The awful actions of a few lone nuts should not be the reason I give up my right.
 
Quad4_72 said:
Identify a single post where I have "Glorified" guns and violence. More specifically violence please.
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Every time you post, a picture of a gun (an instrument of violence) appears.

Yes, the US list is much longer. But it's not like it doesn't happen elsewhere, as you previously suggested.
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I didn't suggest it didn't happen elsewhere.

The US list is hugely, significantly longer. Why do you think that is?
 
Ashles said:
We are trying to discuss ways of keeping these guns away from people who might use them to attack a school.
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My bad.

I made my comment under the assumption that the issue was random mass shootings.

In any case, wouldn't you then need an armed range officer whose primary responsibility was to ensure that those with criminal intent simply do not walk off range with a firearm???
 
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Dcdrac said:
THE US is awash with guns so its going to be difficult to change that hwoever a reasoable start is:

1. Stop all sales of Automatics and Semi Automatics to civillians there is no plausilbe reasonable reason for civilians to have those.
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Again, how many mass shootings have been conducted with automatic weapons? Similarly, how many with semi auto weapons? And the plausible reason to have those is many of us are avid shooters. While I am not a civilian, I believe civilians should have the right to these weapons as well. As with my previous two questions, can you present an overwhelming amount of evidence as to this outbreak of semi auto rifle gun crime? Oh and automatic weapon gun crime as well.

2. Restrict guns to licenced fire ranges where they can be kept safely.
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This is just silly. So no one should have the right to self defense?
 
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