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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

lionking said:
As I said earlier, I would ban all firearms, but am comfortable to draw the line at semi-automatic and upwards.
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What I was trying to get to is this.

At the time of the invention of reliable manually operated multi shor firearms, whether handguns, rifles or shotguns, they were in effect the "AW's" of their day - "load on Sunday and shoot all week" is how the soldiers of the time described the Henry lever action rifle.

Those same original rifles today, even in California that has a A+ rating on gun control laws from the Bradys, are cash and carry curio and relics.

What was once the state of the art killing machine of their day is now not even considered a viable weapon.

(disclaimer, I'm a big fan of lever action big bore rifles, and a Marlin 1895 Guide gun in 45/70 would scare me in the hands of an enemy a hell of a lot more than an AR or AK platform rifle)

This "high-capacity" this and that is just jargon - the way the weapon looks scares the ill-informed, and even though I have a load of sympathy for Carolyn McCarthy, I would prefer that someone writing gun control laws actually knows wtf they're talking about:

 
Ranb said:
I read that the number of gun crimes went up but the rate went down since the ban. Got a link that shows this huge reduction?

Sports cars have no benefit to society other than lining the pockets of the people who make them and inflating the egos of the drivers. Yet we still let people drive (and kill with) them.

Ranb
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Not according to the Australian Bureau of Criminology:

Australian crime statistics show a marked decrease in homicides since the gun law change. According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, a government agency, the number of homicides in Australia did increase slightly in 1997 and peaked in 1999, but has since declined to the lowest number on record in 2007, the most recent year for which official figures are available.
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Furthermore, murders using firearms have declined even more sharply than murders in general since the 1996 gun law. In the seven years prior to 1997, firearms were used in 24 percent of all Australian homicides. But most recently, firearms were used in only 11 percent of Australian homicides, according to figures for the 12 months ending July 1, 2007. That’s a decline of more than half since enactment of the gun law to which this message refers.
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http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/
 
Let's call X the thing that keeps any one of us from going around killing random people.

Solve for X.
 
StankApe said:
Why do guns have to have a purpose other than "shooting is fun"? I see things thrown around like "if they need a semi-auto for hunting they need a new hobby" why? are you a hunter? Have you determined that a semi-auto weapon isn't good for hunting?

Why can't they own a gun because they like shooting it? Why can't they own a gun because they just like owning em? (like the previously mentioned sports cars)
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Shooting is fun I'm sure, unless your the one being shot at. Something being fun is not a sufficient reason for it to be legal.

Also as mentioned before, cars are not made to kill things, they have a wide range of uses the most important being efficient transportation, and due to this they are alot more widely used alot more often over a much larger area than guns so it is unsurprising that motor vehicle accidents and fatalities are more common than gun fatalities. When though, was the last time someone stole a car and intentionally ran down 26 people?
 
some guns are made for target shooting, some guns are made for hunting, some guns are made for specifically shooting people (military weapons for example) guns are made for lots of different purposes. The fact that they CAN be used for killing fellow human beings is incidental and banning guns in the USA would contribute very little to gun violence. Criminals would buy illegal guns. Organized criminals would supply them.
 
Hungry81 said:
Shooting is fun I'm sure, unless your the one being shot at. Something being fun is not a sufficient reason for it to be legal.

Also as mentioned before, cars are not made to kill things, they have a wide range of uses the most important being efficient transportation, and due to this they are alot more widely used alot more often over a much larger area than guns so it is unsurprising that motor vehicle accidents and fatalities are more common than gun fatalities. When though, was the last time someone stole a car and intentionally ran down 26 people?
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bolding mine:

But they already ARE legal. You must submit reasonable evidence that making guns illegal would eliminate gun violence.
 
What's interesting is that we, as a society, are reasonable enough to see that automobiles in the hands of the incompetent or impaired are enough of a threat to need sturdy and comprehensive regulation.

And yet I know at least two people who think there should be no restrictions on gun ownership in any capacity. So long as you have the money you should get any gun you want even if you are sweatily convulsing in the gun store while muttering about needing to cleanse the earth of the foaming fear demons that fly above the souls of the righteous. It's an attitude I just can't understand.
 
StankApe said:
Why do guns have to have a purpose other than "shooting is fun"? I see things thrown around like "if they need a semi-auto for hunting they need a new hobby" why? are you a hunter? Have you determined that a semi-auto weapon isn't good for hunting?
Why can't they own a gun because they like shooting it? Why can't they own a gun because they just like owning em? (like the previously mentioned sports cars)
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Someone might determine that bazookas are good for hunting, or to mount on a car for self-defense. Notwithstanding, I'm guessing these activities would be illegal in most states.

These lines you object to already exist. And the location of the lines isn't sacrosanct.
 
StankApe said:
bolding mine:

But they already ARE legal. You must submit reasonable evidence that making guns illegal would eliminate gun violence.
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Over 200 million guns in the US, ammo for them is unlimited, No new laws will help for a long long time, we need another fix.
 
Travis said:
What's interesting is that we, as a society, are reasonable enough to see that automobiles in the hands of the incompetent or impaired are enough of a threat to need sturdy and comprehensive regulation.

And yet I know at least two people who think there should be no restrictions on gun ownership in any capacity. So long as you have the money you should get any gun you want even if you are sweatily convulsing in the gun store while muttering about needing to cleanse the earth of the foaming fear demons that fly above the souls of the righteous. It's an attitude I just can't understand.
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That seems a bit unreasonable!

I think too many people view these sorts of things through their own POV exclusively "I'm not crazy, I want to be able to own any gun I want" and forget that there are people who are crazy out there.

I am all for licensing handgun users, I think a background check to ensure no felony convictions is fair. I don't know how well a psych eval would work as people's psyche can change so dramatically and just because you were treated for depression as a teen shouldn't exclude you from gun ownership as an adult.(and wouldn't have worked in this case as they were legally purchased by his mother)

It's a very complicated issue. bans aren't gonna work, and carte blanche on gun ownership isn't a good choice either.
 
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