School shooting: but don't mention guns!

[Kilaak Kommander]

I know. I just want to hear his justification of how paying for a right still leaves it a right by any stretch of the imagination.

Are any rights truly free? At least those which require some sort of infrastructure. The right to vote, all of the rights associated with the legal system... those aren't free.

 

[rwguinn]

How can ownership of an assault rifle be justified? They are designed to kill a lot of people very quickly. Why would anybody want to own a weapon like this?

You mean like this?
Yes, BATF classified it as an assault weapon
What you object to is looks.
You CANNOT Buy an automatic weapon in the US without a hell of a lot of red tape and background checks.
Semi-autos are used for a lot of things from hunting to paper and differ from what you hate only by looks.

 

[lionking]

Serious question.

Would you make the same observation of an Winchester 1886 lever action rifle or similar?

As I said earlier, I would ban all firearms, but am comfortable to draw the line at semi-automatic and upwards.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Do you contend that the cost of banning guns would be minor? I find it hard to believe that anyone would give it serious thought and conclude it so.

It would be difficult, but it could be done.

 

[Ranb]

How can ownership of an assault rifle be justified? They are designed to kill a lot of people very quickly.

How do you define an assault rifle?

Why would anybody want to own a weapon like this?

How long have you been posting on this forum? I know you have taken part in other gun control debates before and heard why people own them. Surely you are not that naive? I would say that gun owners enjoy their semi-auto rifles as much as sports car owners enjoy their fast cars. I don't have the stats on hand, but I think sports cars might be responsible for more deaths and injuries than assault rifles.

Ranb

 

[thaiboxerken]

Nothing in the AWB of 1994 would have stopped a man from stealing a gun from someone and killing all those kids. You have no evidence right now that shows the guns he used were prohibited by the AWB. I'm sure you will disagree, so why not show me the part of the relevant law that proves you are right.

Ranb

Show me the part in the AWB bill that states "this is designed to punish gun owners."

 

[tyr_13]

It would be difficult, but it could be done.

On that we agree. I don't think the cost would currently be worth the benefit. By the time the cost is low enough that it would be worth it, I don't know that it would need to be done.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I've always found it kinda cowardly to endorse a tax on something you don't use yourself as a punitive measure. "I don't use guns/cigs/booze/gas...etc tax those people who are beneath my smug awesomeness!"

Hardly punitive. It would be to pay for programs that help keep the wrong people from owning/using guns.

 

[Ranb]

Are any rights truly free? At least those which require some sort of infrastructure. The right to vote, all of the rights associated with the legal system... those aren't free.

I agree. But the only price I paid to vote in WA was the first class stamp, and that was optional. When I made my last firearm, it cost me about $50 in material, but I had to pay a $200 tax to avoid 10 years/$10,000.

Ranb

 

[StankApe]

I don't know anyone who bought their assault rifles for defense, they got em because they are a lot of fun to shoot. So they take them to the range or out in the woods and shoot targets with them. (it IS pretty darn fun).

Not a very practical home weapon, for that you want a handgun or a pump shotgun

 

[thaiboxerken]

As I said earlier, I would ban all firearms, but am comfortable to draw the line at semi-automatic and upwards.

I'm with you. As far as hunting, if a person needs a semi-automatic rifle to hunt with, they should pick a different hobby.

 

[lionking]

How long have you been posting on this forum? I know you have taken part in other gun control debates before and heard why people own them. Surely you are not that naive? I would say that gun owners enjoy their semi-auto rifles as much as sports car owners enjoy their fast cars. I don't have the stats on hand, but I think sports cars might be responsible for more deaths and injuries than assault rifles.

Ranb

And as I'm sure I said in other threads, we banned semi-automatics in Australia without the social fabric tearing apart, and with a huge reduction in multiple gun homicides. And I'm sure I would have also pointed out that cars are not designed to kill.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I don't know anyone who bought their assault rifles for defense, they got em because they are a lot of fun to shoot. So they take them to the range or out in the woods and shoot targets with them. (it IS pretty darn fun).

Not a very practical home weapon, for that you want a handgun or a pump shotgun

As I suspected, guns are just really deadly toys to some people.

 

[Ranb]

Show me the part in the AWB bill that states "this is designed to punish gun owners."

It was implied of course. Since none of the AWB could possibly have prevented crime it had to have some other purpose. Can you name a single person who benefited from it or whose life was saved?

Ranb

 

[thaiboxerken]

It was implied of course.

Right. That's very convincing.

 

[StankApe]

Hardly punitive. It would be to pay for programs that help keep the wrong people from owning/using guns.

and how would you do that? and why should the lawful gun owner be forced into paying more money for his legally purchased product because somebody else is a bad guy? Guns are already heavily taxed as it is .

Plus, as mentioned 100 times before, this concept that only legally purchased firearms are used is totally false. If a person wants to shoot someone bad enough, even if they have the word crazy inked on their forehead, they can buy a gun off the street in no time. They can even buy a gun from a non-criminal person who has decided to sell one of their firearms. Doesn't even have to be the sinister "back door gun dealer" black market gang driven thing.

 

[thaiboxerken]

and how would you do that? and why should the lawful gun owner be forced into paying more money for his legally purchased product because somebody else is a bad guy? Guns are already heavily taxed as it is .

It would be a measure to reduce the chances that a crazy person could buy/own a gun. Most gun owners are law abiding citizens, until they decide to start shooting people.

 

[Ranb]

And as I'm sure I said in other threads, we banned semi-automatics in Australia without the social fabric tearing apart, and with a huge reduction in multiple gun homicides. And I'm sure I would have also pointed out that cars are not designed to kill.

I read that the number of gun crimes went up but the rate went down since the ban. Got a link that shows this huge reduction?

Sports cars have no benefit to society other than lining the pockets of the people who make them and inflating the egos of the drivers. Yet we still let people drive (and kill with) them.

Ranb

 

[zeggman]

It is interesting that it seems harder to vote in some states than to buy a gun legally.

I'm pretty sure this statement is nonsense in all 50 states, for any sane value of "seems".

 

[StankApe]

Why do guns have to have a purpose other than "shooting is fun"? I see things thrown around like "if they need a semi-auto for hunting they need a new hobby" why? are you a hunter? Have you determined that a semi-auto weapon isn't good for hunting?

Why can't they own a gun because they like shooting it? Why can't they own a gun because they just like owning em? (like the previously mentioned sports cars)