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School shooting: but don't mention guns!

dudalb said:
Partly and partly misplaced idealism

One thing to remember:When somebody wants to take away your freedom, they always have Good Sounding Reasons for doing so.

I am not against some reasonable limits on gun ownership:Througough Background check;60 day waiting period, limits on how much ammo you can buy at a time. I even don't see the need to won an assault rifle.
But Total Bans..or restrictions so strict they amount to a de facto Ban..I am totally opposed to and will fight by any means necessary.
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There's no difference between an "assault rifle" and any other semi-auto removable-magazine fed weapon, in terms of usefulness to massacre people...
 
NoahFence said:
Even money says it's his brother updating his facebook page, not him.
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That's possible, of course, which is why I wrote, "if he's alive and updating his Facebook page". It's just as possible that it is the other way around.

The larger point, however, is that I think it is kind of irresponsible to be plastering someone's face all over the place before there is any real confirmation of identity.
 
dudalb said:
Colonials.....thanks of confirming what I suspected you think of Americans anyway.
Makes me very glad we kicked out the Brits in 1781....
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You did indeed. Well done. Just what we would have done in your position.

Now we are not charging all over your country and annoying you, you don't really need the guns anymore.
 
No guns and now only the criminals have them.....

Because they of course dont care about the laws.

All of this is just bicker anyway, because washington DC can outlaw guns all they want to on paper, it wont matter. If you think this incident is something, try and take away Americas guns and see what happens...
 
dudalb said:
Partly and partly misplaced idealism

One thing to remember:When somebody wants to take away your freedom, they always have Good Sounding Reasons for doing so.

I am not against some reasonable limits on gun ownership:Througough Background check;60 day waiting period, limits on how much ammo you can buy at a time. I even don't see the need to won an assault rifle.
But Total Bans..or restrictions so strict they amount to a de facto Ban..I am totally opposed to and will fight by any means necessary.
Click to expand...

I do think now would be the time to begin a serious debate. I have no problem with that. Blanket bans, no. Bad idea, patently unfair to law-abiding owners, and ineffective to start with (if your goal is to prevent shootings).

I'm a gun owner. On paper I don't think there should be any gun control. Zero. None. You should be able to buy a Minigun over the counter. But this is reality. Not everybody is responsible or mentally capable of handling so much as a Brown Bess musket. There are insane people, and the mental health system in the US blows.

I do have a sinking feeling that a sequel to the useless "Assault Weapons" Ban is on the horizon. It will serve the same purpose as the 1994 one: to make it look like politicians care enough to do something without actually addressing the larger issues.

I'd be able to deal with a situation where those kinds of weapons (including the one I own) are locked in a safe at a range where they can be used for punching paper targets.

I'm hoping Obama uses this to address the mental health issue. I don't think he will, unfortunately. I think responsible gun owners are going to take it on the chin, same as 18 years ago.
 
Sabretooth said:
Huh?

Well, let's see. What else should I give up? Cars kill, so those should go. Knives. Tobacco. Alcohol. Baseball Bats. Hockey Sticks. Skateboards. Bricks....

C'mon. That argument is silly at best. Why not propose we all just live in isolated padded rooms so no one hurts each other?

Based on the known info at this point, it's easy to imagine a scenario where a large knife (or two) would help this lunatic do exactly what he did today.

I mean, FFS, this guy attacked a classroom full of helpless children! Whether he had a knife, gun, or bare fists, this event is a tragedy in every sense.
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It's these patently ridiculous false equivalencies you recite that impress me as "silly at best".

I'm in favor of strict gun control by the way.
 
LashL said:
That's possible, of course, which is why I wrote, "if he's alive and updating his Facebook page". It's just as possible that it is the other way around.

The larger point, however, is that I think it is kind of irresponsible to be plastering someone's face all over the place before there is any real confirmation of identity.
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Expect the news media to be responsible?! :jaw-dropp
 
dudalb said:
I just cannot understand

A.The idea that because a few people misuse something that something should be taken away for everybody.

B.The whole mentality where people seem endlessly ready to give up individual liberty because of some utopian social ideal.
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Agreed, dudalb. And we are likely to see pundits in histrionics that will result in nothing. People need to be more knowledgeable about the guns themselves before we can have a constructive discussion about how to reduce the odds of this sort of tragic event in the future.
 
scarlettinlondon said:
This argument is because you are pro gun rights. My argument is because I am anti gun rights. We both believe ourselves to be right. You will not convince me that citizens should have the right to bear arms. I probably won't convince you paricularly in view of your finding my argument silly at best.

I have looked at your argument. I think you are right. Removing all guns will not stop all murders.
It might reduce them and it will likely reduce the
mass murders like this.

What I don't understand is why you are not willing to try the gun free experiment seeing as you can see from other countries positions that we have some success. You have nothing to lose other than your right as a civilian to carry a gun. If you think that this right is more important than tryng to reduce these tragedies then I will not be able to convince you to try it.

And I am sorry for my failure as I think you would like it when you got used to it. I like it. And we are not so very different as countries.
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I already own guns, including semi-auto pistols and rifle.

What reason will you use to justify taking them from me?
 
Ian said:
Phil Plait has weighed in:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astr..._mental_health_and_our_responsibility_to.html
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While I agree with a lot of the article this puzzles me.

"And since then, we’ve experimented. We—the American people—expanded voting rights to women, to blacks, to everyone over the age of 18".

Was the US the first to do these? It's hardly a huge experiment if there is data that the world didn't cave in when other societies granted these rights prior.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I already own guns, including semi-auto pistols and rifle.

What reason will you use to justify taking them from me?
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I don't want to take them away from you.
I want you to give them up yourselves because you can see that you don't need them in a modern civilised country.
 
dudalb said:
Partly and partly misplaced idealism

One thing to remember:When somebody wants to take away your freedom, they always have Good Sounding Reasons for doing so.

I am not against some reasonable limits on gun ownership:Througough Background check;60 day waiting period, limits on how much ammo you can buy at a time. I even don't see the need to won an assault rifle.
But Total Bans..or restrictions so strict they amount to a de facto Ban..I am totally opposed to and will fight by any means necessary.
Click to expand...

In New York, we have all that. Extensive background check. Long processing time (depending on county...as little as 6 weeks, but several take up to 13 months to just complete your application). Mandatory gun safety and handling class. Every gun you purchase is documented to your permit. In many cases, it's not even legal to carry your gun in public, you may only transport to/from the range or hunting grounds.

Every State should make sure that the person requesting to possess a handgun/rifle has the qualifications to do so. I don't have a problem with that.

Thing is...no government run/sponsored program works perfectly. There are going to be mistakes. Same as with giving an 85 year old legally blind man a license to drive.

Banning guns altogether is just a silly argument...
 
scarlettinlondon said:
I don't want to take them away from you.
I want you to give them up yourselves because you can see that you don't need them in a modern civilised country.
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And we don't want to give them up ourselves because we, as a modern civilized society, have decided we want them.
 
LTC8K6 said:
I wasn't going to go there, but since you did...

Knives are already illegal in schools...China has recently cracked down on security in schools.
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If the kids in China all had knives, this would never have happen
 
Sabretooth said:
Banning guns altogether is just a silly argument...
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I can see that you don't LIKE it. I don't see why it's silly. You might not like the idea of giving up your rights. It can't really be silly to have a country where civilians don't carry\own guns. Boring perhaps. Safe and dull possibly. Not silly though.
 
scarlettinlondon said:
I don't want to take them away from you.
I want you to give them up yourselves because you can see that you don't need them in a modern civilised country.
Click to expand...

You do realize that not everybody lives in safe neighborhoods, right? There are parts of my city I wouldn't live in unless I owned a gun. Heck, there are parts of it I wouldn't go through unarmed, in broad daylight.
 
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