• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

School shooting: but don't mention guns!

I'm the father of a five year old in kindergarten and I'm in tears at the moment. Unimaginable.
 
Unfathomable. Are people born with that kind of evil, or is it something they learned through their upbringing? I have an elementary school aged child, and I can't even imagine...
 
R.Mackey said:
I believe it can.

However, when threads on the topic begin with speculation about the other side, strawmanning, and well-poisoning, the odds decrease precipitously.
Our thoughts at the moment should be with the victims. It's an old discussion, it can wait for a few hours at least.
Click to expand...

Well that was actually what I was hoping to ironically highlight at the time. Now I think that is overshadowed by events. See below.

ravdin said:
I'll gladly argue about gun control in a civil manner on another day, but right now I'm too overwhelmed with horror at the situation.
Click to expand...

When I started this thread they were reporting that only the shooter was dead, likely at the hands of police. My biggest indignation at the time was really the statement that elementary schools don't have bullying.

I go, rake leaves out of the gutter then come back to watch what is up and see maybe twenty kids are dead. And this is a K-4 school.

Now I'm ashamed at starting this all off the way I did.

Granted we will have to deal with the social situation questions one day. We need to be able to have an adult sit down and talk about where we really want our society to lead. Do we really want to keep tolerating these tragedies in order to protect what might be an outmoded concept of individual rights? Can we consider massacres like this a tragedy of the commons only properly addressed by giving up some of those rights?

One day we will have to really and earnestly tackle those questions. We can't avoid them forever. For the moment we have innocent lives to mourn and children to bury.
 
Cain said:
And it's critical that he would have killed just as many people. He could've used anything -- a hunting knife, scissors, plastic bags...
Click to expand...

Deadpan humor aside, this exactly.

There is a reason why guns are used over any other instrument. The sooner we drop this "Well they could have used ANYTHING" argument, the sooner we can have an actual discussion.
 
travis;8844599 granted we will have to deal with the social situation questions one day. We need to be able to have an adult sit down and talk about where we really want our society to lead. Do we really want to keep tolerating these tragedies in order to protect what might be an outmoded concept of individual rights? Can we consider massacres like this a tragedy of the commons only properly addressed by giving up some of those rights? One day we will have to really and earnestly tackle those questions. We can't avoid them forever. For the moment we have innocent lives to mourn and children to bury.[/quote said:
this
Click to expand...
 
ToddH said:
I'm the father of a five year old in kindergarten and I'm in tears at the moment. Unimaginable.
Click to expand...

Ditto. I'm about to leave work early just to go pick up my boys from school and give them each an hour long hug.
 
We don't have the right in the UK to carry a gun

You can get a gun if you have a legitimate use for it, hunting, or farming

We don't miss it because we've not had that right for generations.

You'll get used to it, and it will be better
 
Travis said:
Granted we will have to deal with the social situation questions one day. We need to be able to have an adult sit down and talk about where we really want our society to lead. Do we really want to keep tolerating these tragedies in order to protect what might be an outmoded concept of individual rights? Can we consider massacres like this a tragedy of the commons only properly addressed by giving up some of those rights?

One day we will have to really and earnestly tackle those questions. We can't avoid them forever. For the moment we have innocent lives to mourn and children to bury.
Click to expand...

Well put, Travis. Thanks.
 
fuelair said:
Meanwhile, in other news today: http://www.voanews.com/content/man-stabs-22-children-at-chinese-elementary-school/1564820.html
Click to expand...

And this is relevant how?

Chinese state media say a man stabbed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday.

The official Xinhua news agency says the knife-wielding man attacked the children outside a school in Chenpeng village in Henan province. It said the children, whose ages are not known, suffered non-life-threatening injuries.
Click to expand...
 
Cain said:
STOP confusing the issue. FACT is he could've killed just as many people with darts or ninja stars!
Click to expand...


I call Bull!!

One man standing 60 feet from a group of 10 people can shoot and kill all of them with a fully loaded M16 or L1A1 before they have any chance of escape. That cannot be done with a knife.

I have no objection to people owning guns. Many people in this country own them, but they have to get a Firearms Licence first. for this they need
three documents that prove identity (passport, birth certificate, drivers licence, Photo ID, credit card/bank card) and the two referees, one of which must be your spouse or next of kin, and the other must be someone who is over 20 years old and nota relative. You need to provide their full name, address, date of birth and phone number.

Then you have to pass a personal assessment to see if you are a fit and proper person to be allowed to have a firearm. The police will make this assessment (which includes and interview). Any applicant who fails one or more of the following will not be granted a licence.
  • has been subject to a protection order;
  • has shown disregard for the Arms Act or Arms Regulations, e.g. through a series of minor infractions;
  • has been involved in substance abuse;
  • has committed a serious criminal offence or any crimes involving violence or drugs;
  • is affiliated with a criminal gang;
  • has perpetrated acts or threats of domestic violence;
  • exhibits signs of mental ill health;
  • has attempted to commit suicide or displayed other self injurious behaviour.
Then they have to attend a Safety Lecture and pass a basic written test and finally, their firearms safety locker has to be inspected by a Police officer.

Guns are too easy to get in the USA. These kinds school and mass shooting incidents could be minimised with tighter gun control.
 
Cain said:
Guns don't kill people; people kill people. This guy could've stacked a higher body count by setting the building on fire, so are we gonna outlaw matches and gasoline? What next, we gonna outlaw grenades?? Don't be ridiculous.
Click to expand...


This is the dumbest thing any gun owner ever said. Of course guns kill people. That there are many ways of killing people does not negate the fact that guns are created for one purpose and one purpose only: TO KILL.

When us gun owner, yes I own guns, say this **** it absolves us of the responsibility of ownership of such a killing implement. We need to stop screaming about the right to own guns, cold dead hands, and spoons make people fat and start taking responsibility for our weapons and have an honest conversation about what guns are, what they do, and what it means to live in an armed society. Until we stop this "guns don't kill" ******** we will never have an honest discussion.

If matches and gasoline are such an awesome and effective weapon why don't people carry them around concealed under their coat to stop a mugger? If matches and gasoline are so effective why don't I keep them next to my bed in case of a break in? Knock it off.
 
R.Mackey said:
Expecting a witness involved to reliably count shots to over 100 is unrealistic.
Click to expand...
I have no such expectation. Do you? I think somewhere around 100 is probably credible though. I don't think the witness claims to have counted them or to be giving an exact count.

I've heard all kinds of wild speculation.
Click to expand...

The witness statement that something like 100 rounds were fired isn't wild speculation.

ETA: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/us/2012/12/14/bpr-artley-shooting.cnn
 
Last edited:
I still can't believe it. What the heck...

Someone take the game out of the universal console and scrub the back of the disc with a brillo pad.

NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY EVER AGAIN.​
 
Looks like they've found one of the shooter's parents, apparently murdered in their home in New Jersey this morning.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom