Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[leftysergeant]

Yup, if you disregrad the blood under the firearm and the spots without blood outside the firearm's profile, it fits exactly!

Notice that the safety lever exactly matches the divot in a concave surface of Z's head?

O'Mara made a remark that he would not have struggled for over 40 seconds with Martin before drawing his weapon and shooting Martin. I think Z did draw earlier but lost his grip, and a good part of the struggle was to regain control of the weapon. If the gun had fallen on the ground and the two of them wrestled for control of it, his hitting his head on it is not that inconcieveable. It is, in fact, easier to believe than that Z could have drawn and fired it while Martin was straddling him and banging his head on the concrete.

 

[Rare Truth]

There are some new transcipts of depositions attached as exhibits to that motion. On page 44 Ofc. Santiago reveals that SDP discussed charging one of the 911 callers in relation to the Martin shooting:
...

He was talking about Zimmerman. He was the 911 caller.

 

[Cylinder]

He was talking about Zimmerman. He was the 911 caller.

They were clearly speaking of a 911 caller - not Zimmerman.

OMARA: Okay. To the extent that he told you his perspective on what he thought should happen with the case; what was it?

SANTIAGO: Jirn Carter?

OMARA: Yes.

SANTIAGO: We talked about, I think it was like the last day, the last meeting I was in and we talked about can we even file charges on the guy that dialed 911. I know that's how I found out that down here in Florida, you're supposed to help somebody .and not to just watch them, not just stay on with 911, like walk back into your house.

OMARA: The 911 call, you referenced, actually the 911 call that you can hear the yelling on?
SANTIAGO: Right.

OMARA: The screaming for help?

SANTIAGO: Right.

OMARA: And your question was this guy didn't do anything; can we even charge him with something?

SANTIAGO: Yes.

OMARA: And Mr. Carter said what?

SANTIAGO: No.

OMARA: What did he say about charging Mr. Zimmerman?
SANTIAGO: I'm not going to -— I can't quote him, but basically, if I was reading him right. that we didn't have anything.

It hasn't been established that Zimmerman called 911. There's no recording or event log so I'm guessing they don't exist, though the state hasn't exactly inspired confidence in the discovery process so far.

In the status conference, they were talking about charging one of the 911 callers which captured Zimmerman's screams - not Zimmerman. This will be a problem for the state because on one hand is their theory on no civilian involvement in suspicious activity but on the other you have the SPD major crimes team talking about charging a person for not getting involved in suspicious activity.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

He was talking about Zimmerman. He was the 911 caller.

George Zimmerman called 911 ? Really ?

 

[Dan O.]

The point has been made repeatedly that George's recorded call to the police prior to the shooting of Trayvon was to the non emergency number. However, there are indications that George was on the phone again to the police shortly after the shooting and that this second call was to 9-1-1.

 

[Cylinder]

The point has been made repeatedly that George's recorded call to the police prior to the shooting of Trayvon was to the non emergency number. However, there are indications that George was on the phone again to the police shortly after the shooting and that this second call was to 9-1-1.

But there's no recording or event log for the call.

 

[leftysergeant]

The deposition from Cpt. O'Connor also details how the defense team learned that SPD Investigator Irwin related to him that he was present during the interveiw with Tracy Martin, in which he denied it was Trayvon screaming in the 911 call, and that he disclosed that fact to BDLR weeks before his deposition. The state failed to inform MOM of this fact and Irwin did not disclose it during his deposition.

This may be far less important than the defense team thinks. There is some question as to the quality of the recording and Mr Martin's hearing. THe victim's mother did think it was her son.

Doesn't really matter, though. I do not hear anybody yelling "Help me." I hear someone screaming "NO!"

The victim was aware for some time before he was shot that Z had a weapon. I see no way that Z could have drawn it and fired to produce the wound that killed Martin while lying on the ground under Martin.

 

[Ziggurat]

Notice that the safety lever exactly matches the divot in a concave surface of Z's head?

No it doesn't. In the photo superposition you posted, the safety is above the bloody wound. You can see the position of the safety more clearly in the original photo of the gun (a Kel-Tec PF-9):
http://sharing.wptv.com/sharewfts//photo/2012/05/17/DSCN0254_20120517174547_640_480.JPG
What you claim matches doesn't actually match.

 

[Dan O.]

But there's no recording or event log for the call.

Is that true? This was discussed in this thread back in June. Has there been some new revelation since then?

 

[Cylinder]

Is that true? This was discussed in this thread back in June. Has there been some new revelation since then?

The 911 event logs from SCSO were released in some weeks (months?) ago with none that correspond to Zimmerman calling. Also, no recording has been released in discovery or referenced in any document, pleading, report, argument, etc.., that I am aware of.

 

[This is The End]

I do not hear anybody yelling "Help me." I hear someone screaming "NO!"

You seriously listened to that 8 second clip and didn't hear the word "help"??

Sure, I admit the one 3 seconds before the gunshot is not clear, but the one 1 second before the gunshot is a quite clear and enunciated "help" (or "hell", which wouldn't make sense)... definitely not a "NO"...

The "help" in question is between :06 and :07 in the below clip (the gunshot is between :07 and :08).

Here's the last 8 seconds with volume normalized that was posted last week so everyone can hear for themselves:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/download.php?file_id=05894431095829727103&t=0589443109582972710386417

What I hear is a loud scream (at :02) then 2 seconds later (at :04) either a scream or a yell of "help" (that one is hard to tell because the dispatcher is talking) then 2 seconds later (at :06) a very clear yell of "help", then 1 second later (at :07) is the gunshot.

I really don't want to make any judgments about it....

Though I will say that it seems weird that Z would yell the word "help" again almost at the very instant he is pulling the trigger.

To clarify that last sentence; by that time Z would have already had the gun and would be moving it into position to fire into M's chest.

 

[Profanz]

Travon Martin was murdered. Zimmerman was told not to confront him when he was on the phone with 911. Zimmerman did anyway and then killed him.

I don't care if Travon was beating the hell out of Zimmerman. Zimmerman should not have been following him and should not have confronted him in the first place. It was none of his business. Zimmerman caused all of this to happen. Not Travon.

 

[Profanz]

Travon Martin was murdered. That' s it.

 

[bookworm]

It's interesting how people STILL say that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin but did it anyway. That's not the way it happened. Zimmerman was ALREADY following when it was SUGGESTED he should not. He then stopped and started to return to his vehicle.

 

[Giz]

Zimmerman was told not to confront him when he was on the phone with 911. Zimmerman did anyway [snip]

No-one knows for sure who initiated the confrontation.

This thread is a big pile of 'skeptics' arguing from emotion.

 

[This is The End]

It's interesting how people STILL say that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin but did it anyway. That's not the way it happened. Zimmerman was ALREADY following when it was SUGGESTED he should not. He then stopped and started to return to his vehicle.

The highlighted is not true as can be seen in the reenactment video.

I also note that you get a key piece of information wrong in the very post where you admonish someone who got it more correct than you did.

All they did was leave out how it was a suggestion, you OTOH got whether or not he "stopped and started to return to his vehicle" completely wrong. That is, as you say, "interesting" and "not the way it happened".

Zimmerman continues all the way to the end of that sidewalk to go get an address or something. He clearly says "I walled all the way through." They then proceed to do that.

At the end of the sidewalk Z even makes a comment about how "back there" they said "are you following him". Z then admits that they said "we don't need you to do that". He then looks a bit flustered and garbles his words in front of the cops, possibly thinking that he shouldn't have said admitted to not turning around immediately.

He points way back to where they stopped the first time (in the reenactment) in the middle when he says "back there".

This can all be seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k07wZIU1siM

I recommend watching the entire 3 minutes starting at 10:00, but if you don't have time you can see his admission at 11:55.

This is related to, but not specifically, one of the 2 key changes that Z made to his story after the not911 call. I believe I talked about them in detail here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8424657#post8424657

 

[Rare Truth]

It's interesting how people STILL say that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin but did it anyway. That's not the way it happened. Zimmerman was ALREADY following when it was SUGGESTED he should not. He then stopped and started to return to his vehicle.

He HAD been informed prior though, that the Sanford PD told him he WAS NOT to physically involve himself in suspicious people he reports.

He did.

 

[leftysergeant]

It's interesting how people STILL say that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin but did it anyway. That's not the way it happened. Zimmerman was ALREADY following when it was SUGGESTED he should not.

Actually, the thug was chasing Martin, in violation of NW rules. He was armed, in violation of NW rules. He was causing Martin to fear for his life. He had no right to be doing what he was doing. End of that story. Martin had a right to kill him if that was whjat it took. He had the right to get the hell out of Martin's face. That is the limit of his rights.

He then stopped and started to return to his vehicle.

We have only the word of a known sociopath for that. DeeDee's statement contradicts that.

 

[johnny karate]

It's interesting how people STILL say that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin but did it anyway. That's not the way it happened. Zimmerman was ALREADY following when it was SUGGESTED he should not. He then stopped and started to return to his vehicle.

Actually, Zimmerman claimed to have stopped and returned to his vehicle. There's no evidence he actually did, and a reasonable likelihood that he didn't.

 

[KatieG]

It's interesting how people STILL say that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin but did it anyway. That's not the way it happened. Zimmerman was ALREADY following when it was SUGGESTED he should not. He then stopped and started to return to his vehicle.

There is no proof he stopped and went back to his vehicle. There is evidence he continued walking in the direction he was headed. Interesting.