• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Noztradamus said:
That image looks dodgy around the lips, and may have been altered by GIMP software only a couple of days ago.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57899bc7253cfdb62896508d16ec34b52a56d925.209869

If, so unlikely to appear at trial (unless they want to lose)
Click to expand...

It appears to be the same photo as the black and white copy we have seen, and matches the description of the officers who thought his nose was broken.

I assume the claim above is based on the metadata:
Software GIMP 2.8.2
Modify Date 2012:12:03 09:10:06
Wouldn't that simply identify the software used to import the image to the computer ? It's not like it's difficult to strip out EXIF data or particular tags if someone was trying to hide it.
 
Noztradamus said:
That image looks dodgy around the lips, and may have been altered by GIMP software only a couple of days ago.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57899bc7253cfdb62896508d16ec34b52a56d925.209869

If, so unlikely to appear at trial (unless they want to lose)
Click to expand...

It's ridiculous to assert the image has been modified in any meaningful manner. The image was taken by law enforcement and provided by the state. The image matches the multigen B&W photocopy provided earlier on the state's own website and the better B&W print provided later.

Of course, the web version was modified in several manners. It was rotated 90 degrees CCW and probably reduced in size.

The web version isn't evidence. It represents a copy of the original photo provided by the state to the defense team which is evidence.
 
Well, just from a layman's perspective, and perhaps a foreshadowing of how a jury might react, he looks pretty banged up with this photo and the back of the head photo. I gotta believe that if these are passed around in the jury room, it's going to have an impact. (Sweet pun intended.)
 
Noztradamus said:
That image looks dodgy around the lips, and may have been altered by GIMP software only a couple of days ago.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57899bc7253cfdb62896508d16ec34b52a56d925.209869

If, so unlikely to appear at trial (unless they want to lose)
Click to expand...

A website run by a group called Hacker Factor convinced you of this? I'm sure if the Zimmerman team wanted to fake a photo they could do a bit better, especially with the meta-data, so that your average idiot wouldn't discover the fake? :rolleyes:

Looks like he's pretty beat up to me, probably with a broken nose. The prosecution going for second degree murder seems like a deliberate attempt to lose.
 
Noztradamus said:
That image looks dodgy around the lips, and may have been altered by GIMP software only a couple of days ago.
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=57899bc7253cfdb62896508d16ec34b52a56d925.209869
Click to expand...

I see no evidence of that. All I see is exactly what I expect from original compression effects: areas with large gradients have more error in them. That happens along all the boundaries, and it happens around his bloodied lip where you go from very dark to very light repeatedly. The only image we know was altered was the black and white copy originally given to the defense.

And your specific reference to GIMP is strange. Other than the fact that that site mentions GIMP in passing, I'm not sure why you picked that program out as the candidate editor. It doesn't actually make sense, and it makes me wonder if you understand what GIMP actually is.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
I assume the claim above is based on the metadata:
Software GIMP 2.8.2
Modify Date 2012:12:03 09:10:06
Wouldn't that simply identify the software used to import the image to the computer ? It's not like it's difficult to strip out EXIF data or particular tags if someone was trying to hide it.
Click to expand...

That actually solves one of the questions I had about why he mentioned GIMP. But the thing is, that image is a low-res image. The original photo is almost certainly higher resolution than that, since the iPhone 4 (the camera that supposedly took the photo) can do much better. GIMP could have been used to simply lower the resolution, both to fit more easily on screen and to reduce bandwidth.

As for the whole ELA thing, well, check this out:
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=9e54615457f385d2118a0dbd6158efe88b366f83.17129
Very little additional error around the lip in that photo. I made that. How? Simple: I downloaded the png (which had the EXIF data stripped) and saved it as a jpg with a quality level of 50. At lower quality level, less info shows up as getting lost when you further decrease the level, since much of it has already been lost. But that is the only change I made.

So I really see no evidence that this photo is in any way tampered with except to change the resolution.
 
The new one is photo shoppoed to make his nose look broken. An hour laterm it looked normal again.
 

Attachments

  • mtlj6yqp.jpg
    mtlj6yqp.jpg
    38.5 KB · Views: 18
  • Z unharmed.jpg
    Z unharmed.jpg
    33.8 KB · Views: 8
I thought the claim that Z was in fear for his life was solely about M going for the gun, and not about how much Z was beat up.... (or is it and/or?)

If that is true, then the picture matters little, except perhaps for swaying the jury, like someone suggested above.
 
marplots said:
Was Zimmerman beat up enough in the latest picture to change anyone's mind?
Click to expand...

I can't imagine seeing this photo would change anyone's mind, no matter which version of events they happen to believe.

What new information does it give us?

We've known Zimmerman was punched and had his nose broken. We've known that for quite some time.

What we don't know is whether or not Zimmerman provoked that punch, and whether or not it was delivered in self-defense.

Because I'm pretty sure in the history of punching, there's at least one or two instances in which the person getting punched wasn't an innocent victim just minding their own business who suddenly got punched for no reason.
 
marplots said:
Was Zimmerman beat up enough in the latest picture to change anyone's mind?
Click to expand...

I think it's rather obvious, but it doesn't change my opinion in the slightest, since I already knew that he took a good hit to the nose. That's his reward for intimidating strangers.
 
leftysergeant said:
The new one is photo shoppoed to make his nose look broken. An hour laterm it looked normal again.
Click to expand...
So you too allege a conspiracy between Zimmerman's defense and the prosecution, correct? The prosecutor is just putting on a show to appease the lynch mob, but the plan is to get him off the hook?

Can you expand on this?
 
johnny karate said:
I can't imagine seeing this photo would change anyone's mind, no matter which version of events they happen to believe.

What new information does it give us?
Click to expand...

It gives us more information about how unethical the prosecution has acted. They had this high-resolution color image, and they only gave the defense a low-quality black & white copy. That's incredibly irresponsible.
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
I thought the claim that Z was in fear for his life was solely about M going for the gun, and not about how much Z was beat up.... (or is it and/or?)
Click to expand...

It's hard to keep track. According to Zimmerman, Martin was trying to beat him to death, smother him, and reach for his gun. I don't recall if he claimed Martin was also trying to poison him.
 
I think it matters in a gut reaction, emotion hook way.
I can very easily think a jury would view that picture (and others) and think, "Man, that guy looks taken to task in a hard way. I can understand how someone might need to defend themselves from such a beating."

It raises the bar the prosecution will have to overcome in my opinion.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
IDK. Maybe it's like porn, I'll know it when I see it. Apparently this thread is full of evidence, I just missed it all.

Here is some evidence they are not friends, IMO :

http://www.theroot.com/george-zimmerman-voicemails-call
In a message left for fellow neighborhood-watch captain Frank Taaffe, who has come out in support of Zimmerman, Zimmerman thanks Taffe for his support within the last month, according to the Huffington Post.

Here's a transcript of the voice mail:

Hey, Mr. Taaffe. This is George. Um, first and foremost, I wanted to say I am very sorry for the loss of your son, and, um, I can't imagine what you must be going through. Um, secondly, I wanted to thank you for doing everything you've been doing. Um, I know you don't have to, and I appreciate it, and you're truly setting an example for me for the future of, uh, doing the right thing even when it's tough, and, uh, I appreciate it. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks. Bye.

Going though ?? FT son died a few years ago ! But GZ feels the need to tell him he's sorry for the loss of his son now ?? That says to me, he just heard learned about that because they are only neighborhood acquaintances at best.
And here is an good comment in a blog as to why FT keeps appearing on TV and getting media attention:
http://skeweddistribution.com/2012/...-is-as-scary-as-george-zimmerman/#comment-819
Click to expand...

Natural Born Skeptic said:
Interesting, anyone not completely delusional would read that and conclude these two were casual acquaintences as best, not "friends" in anything but the loosest sense of the word. I'd hate to have my brain so addled by ignorance that I'd read that and than turn around and still try to insist they were friends.

BTW, don't you refer to all your "friends" by "Mr"? I know I sure do :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I guess the FBI agrees with us, too.

http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1112/discovery9/sa_oliver_taaffee.pdf

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom