General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[bigjelmapro]

Here's how The Economist described the start of the latest escalation:

Makes the various mortars and missiles seem innocuous as well as messing up the timings to portray the brunt of these missiles/mortar attacks as merely reactions to the IDF. This doesn't: List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2012. The stroke of luck, others attributing the intentional targeting of open fields by Palestinian terrorist groups (most of which Hamas has been colluding with the past several months openly, ie PRC), does not make Israel's attack against the command structure of Hamas unjustified.

The gist of this, Israel has an obligation to protect its citizens beyond that of the protection of bomb shelters and not simply endure the barrages of missiles/mortars being fired at them just because the bodies aren't piling up. The last bit includes the massive misconception of 'proportionality' and other legal terms, ie extra-judicial killing, collective punishment, etc.

 

[John Mekki]

I could make a pretty long list, but what you did that led directly to that comment was to ascribe to me an opinion that I didn't say and that doesn't follow from anything that I said. If you want to have a dialogue, you should at least pay attention to what the other person is saying.

I have never ascribed you any opinion.
I was kindly asking you if you are saying that Israel has not built settlements outside their borders

Previously you started a thread about "us versus them" thinking, as though you personally had risen above such partisanship, but in actual discourse you're very partisan. You have your opinions, and seem unwilling to even try to understand different points of view. Further, your actual knowledge is shallow, at best.

1) I am not "us vs them" as I know Hamas is very wrong on many things
2) as for the rest of your comment, it is very general comment without much substance

And you ask that of me...why? Have I ever claimed Israel doesn't make settlements in the West Bank? Have I ever claimed such settlements help the peace process? No? Then it's a nonsensical question and doesn't accomplish anything.

I was asking
Only asking

If questions are allowed..

 

[John Mekki]

Who knows... a few more of these spectacular Hamas "victories" and we may even live to see Israel recognized as a legitimate Jewish state.

If this does not mean that Arabs living in Israel will become 2nd class citizens and if Palestine be recognized as a State within the `67 borders, this would be a nice solution

 

[JihadJane]

Here's how The Economist described the start of the latest escalation:

How did the Economist decide that that incident was "the start", one wonders?


The Institute for Middle East Understanding's Timeline, for example, starts two days previously:

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8

Following a two-week lull in violence, Israeli soldiers invade Gaza. In the resulting exchange of gunfire with Palestinian fighters, a 12-year-old boy is killed by an Israeli bullet while he plays soccer.

Shortly afterwards, Palestinian fighters blow up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel frontier, injuring one Israeli soldier.

SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 10

An anti-tank missile fired by Palestinian fighters wounds four Israeli soldiers driving in a jeep along the Israel-Gaza boundary.

An Israeli artillery shell lands in a soccer field in Gaza killing two children, aged 16 and 17. Later, an Israeli tank fires a shell at a tent where mourners are gathered for a funeral, killing two more civilians, and wounding more than two dozen others.

 

[trustbutverify]

If this does not mean that Arabs living in Israel will become 2nd class citizens and if Palestine be recognized as a State within the `67 borders, this would be a nice solution

I agree.

 

[bigjelmapro]

What "two-week lull in violence"?

 

[angrysoba]

Here's how The Economist described the start of the latest escalation:

The Economist is a great magazine.

It also points out that rockets were being fired from Gaza to Israel.

That puts Israel in a difficult position.

Israel retaliated.

 

[applecorped]

I was asking
Only asking

If questions are allowed..

JAQing off is frowned upon here.

 

[Mycroft]

I have never ascribed you any opinion.

Yes you did. Here:

So you are saying that the Israeli government is not approving settlements outside the 1967 borders?

The words "you are saying" ascribe the opinion to me, even if you phrase it as a question.

1) I am not "us vs them" as I know Hamas is very wrong on many things

Hamas is very wrong on many things? That's possibly the most shallow analysis I've ever seen.

Of course Hamas is "very wrong on many things". They're a freaking terrorist organization that shoots at civilians, uses their own population as human shields, and has been known to shoot up wedding parties because the celebrants were enjoying the music too much. You want to step out on a limb as say Pol Pot or Idi Amin were also "very wrong on many things"? Maybe you can impress us by disagreeing with cancer and birth defects too.

I was asking
Only asking

If questions are allowed..

I see. It's called JAQing off.

You're free to do it, it's just that in doing so if your questions are inane, shallow and nonsensical then others are free to choose the ignore button over the reply button.

 

[Wolrab]

If this does not mean that Arabs living in Israel will become 2nd class citizens and if Palestine be recognized as a State within the `67 borders, this would be a nice solution

Second class citizenship would be a step up from how most Palestinians are living under their Arab brothers. How are the Palestinians doing in Jordan? You know, the last country that controlled the West Bank.
Israel took it from Jordan, they didn't conquer Palestine.

 

[ProBonoShill]

How did the Economist decide that that incident was "the start", one wonders?


The Institute for Middle East Understanding's Timeline, for example, starts two days previously:

Well of course it does, what else would you expect from the anti-semitic bigots at IMEU.

For the proper context of events try here.

 

[Wolrab]

Oops. Wrong about Jordan, it's just the rest of the Arab world that hates Palestinians.

 

[John Mekki]

I agree.

You agree?

 

[John Mekki]

Second class citizenship would be a step up from how most Palestinians are living under their Arab brothers. How are the Palestinians doing in Jordan? You know, the last country that controlled the West Bank.
Israel took it from Jordan, they didn't conquer Palestine.

This has nothing to do with what I was saying about Arabs living in Israel

 

[WildCat]

So now Hamas says they're going to investigate the executions of the "collaboraters".

Any guesses as to how this will end?

 

[IDB87]

So now Hamas says they're going to investigate the executions of the "collaboraters".

Any guesses as to how this will end?

More executions?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

So now Hamas says they're going to investigate the executions of the "collaboraters".

Any guesses as to how this will end?

Oh thank goodness the guys who indiscriminately fire rockets at civilian populations in the hopes of killing any possible living person are going to get to the bottom of this and finally bring justice.

Thank goodness the group that slaughtered an entire wedding party for simply listening to music will get to the bottom of things.

 

[trustbutverify]

So now Hamas says they're going to investigate the executions of the "collaboraters".

Any guesses as to how this will end?

More powerful cycles for post-execution body dragging?

 

[Virus]

I think that when Israel kills a civilian by accident then it's a war crime but if Hamas do it on purpose then it's "complicated".

 

[trustbutverify]

I think that when Israel kills a civilian by accident then it's a war crime but if Hamas do it on purpose then it's "complicated".

Much worse than just pedestrian "war crimes". Nazi caliber genocide, ethnic cleansing, crimes against humanity, body parts profiteering, mass torture, enforced starvation, cancerous infestation, false flag attacks on allies...

In fact, according to the he-man-Israel-haters club, there doesn't seem to be any crime which the Zionists fail to commit on an epic scale.