Hostess workers strike may kill company

"Alternate universe"? I suppose you could call it that. It's called "talent acquisition at the chief executive level."

You didn't know that it's become commonplace nowadays for top executives to negotiate their own salaries, benefits and job "perks," even such traditionally merit-oriented compensations as bonuses and severance packages, prior to the time of hire?





It's standard operating procedure in large corporations. I'm frankly surprised that this is the first you're hearing about these matters.
Evidence?

How do you expect the "owners" of a publicly-traded company to determine the salaries of all employees?
1. Hostes is not a public company.
2. In a public company the board of directors determines compensation for the CEO and other top management. Now you can argue taht boards have become way to cozy with the management, but that's neither here nor there as far as Hostess is concerned.
 
Well, HB is owned by a private equity firm, but the mechanism is/was the same. As you noted in your other comments, this is standard stuff. The management was hired and part of the terms of any good CEO is that he has control over the budget and profit/loss.
Please present your evidence that the HB CEO and top staff determined their own salaries, and not the equity group that hired them.
 
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1488838

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/01/golden-parachutes-21-ceos-landed-100m-plus/

http://diversitymbamagazine.com/negotiating-the-executive-compensation-package

http://www.salary.com/advice/layouthtmls/advl_display_Cat14_Ser69_Par155.html

How many examples do you want?

Just Google "CEO compensation" and you'll find enough material to keep you busy for quite awhile.

A lot of negotiation goes into determining the compensation of top executives. It's not like seeking a job out of the classified section, where standard salary and benefits are spelled out in black and white.
 
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Please present your evidence that the HB CEO and top staff determined their own salaries, and not the equity group that hired them.

This is getting tiresome, Claus. :p

The information on the raises they voted themselves has been in several of the articles linked.
 
So the owners took a loss of hundreds of millions just to give raises and bonuses to the management team they hired totaling $5 million or so?

How does this translate into "profit"?

In publically traded companies, I know how it would work. The owners are the shareholders. They give the company a whole bunch of money. Their representatives are the Board of Directors, and the Board hires the CEO.

What the owners (i.e. shareholders) don't know is that the CEO is friends with the Board and they all recommend large pay raises for each other.

In other words, the real owners, the shareholders, are uninvolved and viewed largely as a source of funds to be given to the folks at the top of the company.

I'm not sure if something similar is at work with private equity firms, but I suspect it is.

Are the people who make real, day to day, decisions on the future of the company the owners, or are they the owners' representatives? If it is the latter, then it seems fairly likely that they will vote themselves big pay raises, even if, or should I say especially if, the company is about to go out of business.
 
Are the people who make real, day to day, decisions on the future of the company the owners, or are they the owners' representatives? If it is the latter, then it seems fairly likely that they will vote themselves big pay raises, even if, or should I say especially if, the company is about to go out of business.

Except that Hostess is in bankruptcy, and any such pay hike would have to be approved by the trustee, which approval is hardly certain given the circumstances surrounding the company's failure.
 
Except that Hostess is in bankruptcy, and any such pay hike would have to be approved by the trustee, which approval is hardly certain given the circumstances surrounding the company's failure.

True. My comments are more likely to be applicable to a company whose future is certain, but has not yet filed for bankruptcy. At that point, it's time to loot it for whatever you can, because it won't be long before that well runs dry.
 
This is a Forbes article about the bankruptcy:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...use-people-no-longer-find-twinkies-appealing/

Quite a bit of stuff that I didn't realize there. Most surprising was the situation with the pensions. Hostess apparently was part of a multi-employer system for supplying pensions. It sounds like the idea was that if a company failed in the system other companies would pick up the pension liabilities associated with the failed companies. Apparently enough companies have been failing in the system that the load on the remaining companies is becoming very large and there are no new companies joining these multi-employer pension systems so the financial pressure on those companies that remain in the system is strong.

One question, I've had is whether the employees in the baker's union actually voted on reducing their benefits or not. I was a little surprised that the union contract just wasn't automatically abrogated during the bankruptcy proceedings. The point of a bankruptcy (ETA: Chapter eleven restructuring that is) is to allow an entity to continue to operate that would be viable if its debt load was removed. The bankruptcy judge couldn't have just set aside the union contract and allowed Hostess to proceed with non-union workers?

Based on the Forbes article, it looked to me like any plan to exit bankruptcy that didn't deal with pensions, union work rules and union benefits was obviously doomed to failure. I'm not sure what the point of all the negotiating was. There was no chance that Hostess could get private financing to continue on without a substantial reduction in the encumbrances in place that would doom any new Hostess business effort.

If union management had the final say on what the nature of Hostess union contracts would be, it seems very doubtful that they would agree to changes that would essentially eliminate the union control of Hostess. They would rather see it fail because it strengthened their position with the rest of the members of their union. Unions work by restricting the size of the labor pool that can compete for jobs and the failure of Hostess was a better outcome for them than a viable Hostess with non-union wages that would compete with the bakeries controlled by their union.
 
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...
One question, I've had is whether the employees in the baker's union actually voted on reducing their benefits or not. ...

On the topic of answering one's own questions:

The contract proposed by Hostess was rejected by 92 percent of union members.
http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/local_news/hostess-brands-workers-hit-the-picket-lines#ixzz2BsF9kRqF

That's an amazingly unified vote. I doubt any potential investor is going to be too excited about reopening plants with those kind of sentiments in the potential employee pool. It looks like the only thing that's going to happen here is the brand names and maybe some of the plant equipment will be sold off. The chances that any of those plants are going to be reopened doesn't look very good.


ETA: Perhaps the bakery union members confused themselves with auto workers. It is true that the federal government will do bail outs on occasion for the most politically well connected unions, but if the baker's union members thought they were in that class of well connectedness*, they appear to have been sadly mistaken.

*grammar digression: My spell checker didn't flag connectedness. I guess connectedness is a legitimate word. Who knew?
 
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You were supposed to click the links and read the material.
I clicked your link from salary.com and the page looked like it was generated by a bot, and I saw nothing to support your assertion that CEOs commonly get to determine their own pay and the owners have no say about it.

Which is why I'm asking for an actual quote, not just a list of links. I've been here a long time, and in my experience 95% of the time when people post only links without actual quotes from them it's because none of the links actually support what they're claiming.

So if you want to post a quote that supports what your claiming, feel free.
 
You were supposed to click the links and read the material.

I'll have to remember that one as I complete my Master's degree: "What do you mean, I got an 'Incomplete' on my thesis? All you had to do was click the links and read the material!"

And I bet it will come in handy in the workplace: "Here's the environmental impact report you asked for. Just click the links and read the material."

Ha ha no.

Do you own homework.
 
I'll have to remember that one as I complete my Master's degree: "What do you mean, I got an 'Incomplete' on my thesis? All you had to do was click the links and read the material!"

And I bet it will come in handy in the workplace: "Here's the environmental impact report you asked for. Just click the links and read the material."

Ha ha no.

Do you own homework.

That could be considered quite ironic considering at these forums posting links to your evidence is generally sufficient and other posters not reading the links would be them not doing their own homework.

Evidence is evidence, nothing requires someone to pick out specific parts to quote for you or to summarize it for you because you don't want to bother reading it.

This isn't really a negative comment towards you or anyone in particular, just saying.
 
That could be considered quite ironic considering at these forums posting links to your evidence is generally sufficient and other
Actually a link with a relevant quote is what's expected here.

We see link bombings (multiple links without any relevant quotes) from the woos when they don't have any actual evidence. "Here's a link to a 200 page article and the answer is in there somewhere" is hardly sufficient.

And I'm still waiting for the evidence that the Hostess CEO gave himself and his team a pay raise without any participation from the owners.
 
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FWIW,
I think the point that Wildcat is making is that the executives in question did not raise their own salaries.

The wording that the Snopes article agrees is true is this:
Hostess approved large pay increases for executives while the company was preparing a bankruptcy filing.
Snopes article:http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/hostess.asp

Although, Snopes doesn't specifically say that it was the owners of the company that approved the large pay increases, without any evidence to the contrary there is a strong implication in that statement that it was the owners of the company or the board of directors that had approved the salary changes.

And soon after this, the CEO that had his salary tripled was replaced. Under the new CEO the salaries of four top executives were reduced to $1 and the salaries of four others were returned to their original levels. Snopes doesn't talk about it, but in addition to the agreement of the individuals involved, presumably the board and/or the owners also approved the decision to lower the salaries of these executives.

One issue here though, is what was the ownership stake of the executives who had their salaries raised. I don't know the answer but perhaps an argument could be made that if their ownership stake was large they might have played a significant role in raising their own salaries. Whoever raised the salaries, potential creditors weren't too happy about the raises and sued the company over them.

As to the issue of on topic links: I clicked on a few of them and I couldn't figure out what they had to do with the topic. If people have a point to make, as Wildcat points out, a quote with a single link is a sign that they are putting forth real evidence. And the converse, a bunch of links without a quote, is usually an indication that the person providing the alleged evidence is not actually providing any evidence.
 
Although, Snopes doesn't specifically say that it was the owners of the company that approved the large pay increases, without any evidence to the contrary there is a strong implication in that statement that it was the owners of the company or the board of directors that had approved the salary changes.
It would have to be the board of directors.

Maybe company law is radically different in the US but I find it difficult to imagine that shareholders would have a say in the day to day running of a company. It would imply that they were also liable for any criminal acts the company might commit which would destroy the concept of "limited liability".

How would it be if you could expect a knock on the door simply because the company who's shares you bought last night was killing people and harvesting their organs?
 

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