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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Can you please show evidence to contradict the evidence you've already seen showing that the collaborators weren't snatched off the street on the day and were known collaborators, know to have been detained by Hamas? :rolleyes:
What evidence was that? What day were they arrested? Who were the defense lawyers? When did the trial take place? What was the evidence? Who was the judge? How did the appeals process go? Etc etc.

But my working assumption seeing a dead body dragged through the streets is that none of these things happened.
 
The Hamas method for calculating criminal liability.

Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said on Wednesday that Hamas was not involved in the attack, which he blamed on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"Who created the circumstances that led to this?" he asked. 'It is Benjamin Netanyahu with his crimes, in killing the kids of Gaza, and the continuity of aggression."

I see. No matter what the circumstances, it's Israel's fault. No matter what the outcome, it's a glorious Hamas/Islamic victory.

Simple answers for the simple minded.
 
What evidence was that? What day were they arrested? Who were the defense lawyers? When did the trial take place? What was the evidence? Who was the judge? How did the appeals process go? Etc etc.

But my working assumption seeing a dead body dragged through the streets is that none of these things happened.

I didnt mention any of those things, i just pointed out that you've made numerous claims that they were snatched from the street that day - I simply asked for what evidence you had for your claims that contradicts the evidence you've seen. Pretty straight forward really.
 
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What evidence was that? What day were they arrested? Who were the defense lawyers? When did the trial take place? What was the evidence? Who was the judge? How did the appeals process go? Etc etc.

But my working assumption seeing a dead body dragged through the streets is that none of these things happened.

I have to say, I have a hard time imagining a court verdict stating the defendant should be shot and dragged behind a motorcycle. Doesn't mean that isn't what happened. It's a crazy world, after all.
 
I have to say, I have a hard time imagining a court verdict stating the defendant should be shot and dragged behind a motorcycle. Doesn't mean that isn't what happened. It's a crazy world, after all.

Well you'll have to imagine it because certainly no one has made any such claim.
 
Lol, not that I give a rats arse who is claiming victory, there's no winners in a conflict like this.

Edited by jhunter1163: 
Edited for civility.

On the contrary, there is a broad consensus that Hamas has been strengthened by Israel's most recent effort to destroy it, e.g.:


Hamas emerges stronger from Gaza war after Israel ceasefire deal

The Islamist group is perceived by many Palestinians as the victor of a war provoked by Binyamin Netanyahu, and is being embraced by leaders of a new Arab world after years of isolation



Chris McGreal in Gaza City said:
It might not look like victory. Dozens of dead children among nearly 100 civilians killed. Hundreds more injured, some condemned to a life of struggle by terrible wounds. Houses flattened. Bridges, offices and stadiums blown to bits.

But as life returns to what passes for normality on the streets of Gaza – once again clogged with people and traffic even as the Israeli drones continue to buzz overhead – many Palestinians regard the ceasefire that put an end to more than a week of incessant bombing and shelling as an Israeli surrender.

The victor, they say, is Hamas, which faced down Israeli aggression and has emerged from years of diplomatic isolation to be embraced, if tentatively, by the leaders of a new Arab world. The lesson learned is that standing up to Israel delivers results that years of concessions under US peace plans and drawn-out negotiations have not.

...

It was no coincidence that the first stream of regional political heavyweights to visit Gaza in more than a decade was led by the Egyptian prime minister and the Tunisian and Turkish foreign ministers. Scenes of the Turkish foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, shedding tears in a Gaza City hospital over dead children, and saying he stood in "solidarity with the Palestinian nation's suffering", were read in Gaza as proof they were no longer alone.

...

The past week has been a severe blow to Abbas's strategy to bring about a Palestinian state. He has renounced violence and committed to a negotiated peace with Israel. He has followed the obstacle course laid out by the US and Europeans, and supervised by Tony Blair, of "institution-building" and security co-operation with Israel, with the promise of a Palestinian state dangling at some undefined point in the future.

The result, as many Palestinians see it, is that Netanyahu has ignored and humiliated Abbas and continued Israel's expansionism with yet more Jewish settlement construction and measures to reaffirm Israeli control over all of Jerusalem and great chunks of the West Bank.
 
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The mod edited out the main point of that post - that the useful idiots who are declaring victory are actually being contradicted by Israeli sources. <SNIP>... or something like that
 
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What did I say wrong.

You questioned the pure-heartedness of Israel, for that you.must be pilloried and sneered at by the <SNIP>

SNIPed, breach of rule 0; calling those that disagree with you names is hardly civil or polite. Enough.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
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You questioned the pure-heartedness of Israel, for that you.must be pilloried and sneered at by the <SNIP>

Hamas use human shields. That means they acknowledge Israel's moral superiority.
 
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The mod edited out the main point of that post - that the useful idiots who are declaring victory are actually being contradicted by Israeli sources. <SNIP>... or something like that

Indeed and we only see one side out on the streets joyously celebrating the ceasefire and regarding it as an empowering victory, AFAIK.
 
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And that they were snatched off the street that day, which was the misconception I was correcting :)

To be honest, when they where snatched off the street is sort of irrelevant. What is relevant is if they had a fair trial. I would lean towards a "no".
 
Indeed and we only see one side out on the streets joyously celebrating the ceasefire and regarding it as an empowering victory, AFAIK.

What did they actually accomplish again? They killed more of their own side than they did the enemy.
 
What did they actually accomplish again? They killed more of their own side than they did the enemy.

Some of their leadership is still alive, they blew up a bus, one of their few missiles that got through killed 3 civilians and one of their own is now the president of Egypt-who's currently busy dismantling the last shreds of his citizens civil rights.

Victory is ours!
 
Some of their leadership is still alive, they blew up a bus, one of their few missiles that got through killed 3 civilians and one of their own is now the president of Egypt-who's currently busy dismantling the last shreds of his citizens civil rights.

Victory is ours!

It isn't all bad. Hamas can't possibly be happy about the way it's leaders were picked off. The rocket barrage was ineffective. The "iron dome" proved itself in action.

I don't think we would be seeing any cease-fire agreement if the rocket barrage had been effective. Hamas' position wasn't going to get any better with time, so they took what they could get while they could get it.

Nor have Israel's long term plans for Hamas been altered in the slightest. Israelis continue to make it quite clear in public statements that terror organizations are to be driven to extinction rather than being granted statehood - just as the U.S. and other countries have responded to their terrorist bedevilers.
 
It isn't all bad. Hamas can't possibly be happy about the way it's leaders were picked off. The rocket barrage was ineffective. The "iron dome" proved itself in action.

I don't think we would be seeing any cease-fire agreement if the rocket barrage had been effective. Hamas' position wasn't going to get any better with time, so they took what they could get while they could get it.

Nor have Israel's long term plans for Hamas been altered in the slightest. Israelis continue to make it quite clear in public statements that terror organizations are to be driven to extinction rather than being granted statehood - just as the U.S. and other countries have responded to their terrorist bedevilers.

Here in the UK we worked with our "terrorist bedevilers" and ended up with the Good Friday Agreement.

We still have problems in Northern Ireland. Partly it's because the terrorist organisations were also criminal organisations and these have continued to use violence and intimidation. Partly it's because there are extremists that still want to make terrorist attacks.

Because the mainstream terrorist organisations are now inside the process, when the extremist attacks happen, we're less tempted to reverse the entire process.

This model almost certainly wouldn't work in the Middle East but you don't have to drive the terrorist organisations to extinction.
 
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