General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[trustbutverify]

perhaps if some of the 'israel can do wrong' crowd stopped trying to make 1 = 1 = 3, it would help.

Agreed?

 

[PhantomWolf]

why does everything have to be black and white.
these are complex issues.

that being said, i believe that israel is the problem.
their treatment of palestinians is deplorable.
gaza is a travesty.

It's a complex issue and it's all Israel's fault.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I wish I had a name for this logical fallacy - I'm sure there is one - whatever it is its *********** childish. I'm surprised you didn't add a 'nyah nyah' at the end

Oh, wait, there IS a name for it!

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Strawman

The problem is BP, you have yet to condemn anything that Hamas and the Palestinians have done, even when you posted about the Israeli bus being attacked you still didn't condemn those actions, the bombing of a civilian bus, and all you do is say, "well there goes any cease fire."

If you don't want people thinking you are supporting Hamas, then stop acting like you are supporting them and actually have the kahoneies to condemn them when they do awful things like you do Israel.

 

[angrysoba]

why does everything have to be black and white.
these are complex issues.

that being said, i believe that israel is the problem.
their treatment of palestinians is deplorable.
gaza is a travesty.

This kind of "reasoning" is the exact mirror-image of your characterization of "the Zionists".

In other words, it is hardly the nuanced, shades of grey analysis of a complex issue you appear to be asking for.

 

[bit_pattern]

The problem is BP, you have yet to condemn anything that Hamas and the Palestinians have done, even when you posted about the Israeli bus being attacked you still didn't condemn those actions, the bombing of a civilian bus, and all you do is say, "well there goes any cease fire."

If you don't want people thinking you are supporting Hamas, then stop acting like you are supporting them and actually have the kahoneies to condemn them when they do awful things like you do Israel.

That doesn't make your logical fallacy any less fallacious.

Oh, and its spelled "cojones" BTW

 

[WildCat]

Israeli tactics haven't changed in decades, poke the cage with a stick until somebody reacts, then play the victim and insist on disproportionate retaliation:

Along the Syria border there were no farms and no refugee camps — there was only the Syrian army... The kibbutzim saw the good agricultural land ... and they dreamed about it... They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land... We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was.
-- Moshe Dayan

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/11/w...lan.html?scp=1&sq=Moshe Dayan Rami Tal&st=cse

And still the Useful Idiots fall for it every time

Because who couldn't resist shooting at a Jew on a tractor? It doesn't get any more provocative than that.

 

[WildCat]

If necessary, you can display babies killed by your own incompetence and claim they were killed by the Zionists. The important thing is, maximize infant mortality
and dance around for the camera claiming "victory".

Yes, it's very complex I hear.

 

[Mycroft]

So you are saying that the Israeli government is not approving settlements outside the 1967 borders?

You're starting to remind me of a user we once had named Parky.

 

[Mycroft]

Because who couldn't resist shooting at a Jew on a tractor? It doesn't get any more provocative than that.

Yeah, it's funny that the same people who condemn Israel for disproportionate response to Hamas rockets seem okay when the disproportionate response is the other way around. Shooting at a guy for plowing unusable earth?

Then if it makes Israel partly responsible for something, by some logic that becomes complete responsibility for everything.

 

[bit_pattern]

Lol, you guys are too much! Where else in the world can you drive a bulldozer into a demilitarised zone and NOT get shot at?

But, no, bugger logic - let's just make emotive appeals to "killing Jews", much easier than admitting that Israeli tactics might be less than noble!

Cool cognitive dissonance, bro!

 

[bit_pattern]

You're starting to remind me of a user we once had named Parky.

I thought sock puppet allegations were against the rules on JREF?

 

[Mycroft]

[qimg]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRVjlt0decE1TkIrG3X0pj99sCORKBhcOp7pkFEhHHlBzM09sYG[/qimg]

Well, I certainly hope this guy was actually guilty of collaborating with the ZionistEntity. I'm sure he was given every opportunity to mount a vigorous defense.

I think it should be mentioned that the purpose of dragging this guy through the streets is to frighten the remaining Palestinians into submission.

This is why you never see Palestinians proposing peace or compromise with Israel. Doing so could get you labeled as a "collaborator", and collaborators die gruesome deaths.

 

[Virus]

Lol, you guys are too much! Where else in the world can you drive a bulldozer into a demilitarised zone and NOT get shot at?

But, no, bugger logic - let's just make emotive appeals to "killing Jews", much easier than admitting that Israeli tactics might be less than noble!

Cool cognitive dissonance, bro!

You're the one who thinks a six-decade conflict started started because someone drove a tractor.

 

[bit_pattern]

You're the one who thinks a six-decade conflict started started because someone drove a tractor.

Is it at all possible to have a rational conversation in this thread rather than these grade-school level strawmen that you guys seem to think constitutes an argument?

 

[WildCat]

Lol, you guys are too much! Where else in the world can you drive a bulldozer into a demilitarised zone and NOT get shot at?

Anywhere else in the world apparently. Here's North Koreans working the fields in the demilitarized zone, photographed from South Korea: http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_images/highres/2008-5-1-80924926.jpg

Or will you claim it makes a difference because they use ox?

But of course, they're probably not Jews, in that case it's open season right?

And I answered your question, how come you never answer ours? Like what other country on earth would take repeated artillery fire on its cities from right next door without a harsh response?

But, no, bugger logic - let's just make emotive appeals to "killing Jews", much easier than admitting that Israeli tactics might be less than noble!

Cool cognitive dissonance, bro!

So where is it OK to shoot at non-Jews working fields in a demilitarized zone? Any examples bit_pattern?

 

[Mycroft]

I thought sock puppet allegations were against the rules on JREF?

I didn't suggest he was a sock puppet.

 

[bit_pattern]

Anywhere else in the world apparently. Here's North Koreans working the fields in the demilitarized zone, photographed from South Korea: http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_images/highres/2008-5-1-80924926.jpg

I get an error 404 on the image itself but the footnote says they were photographed from the DMZ, not that they're farming in the DMZ

Farm workers working the fields as photographed from the South Korean side of the border village of Panmunjom in the demilitarized zone. North Korea again runs the risk of outright famine, a leading US research institute said. (Kim Jae-Hwan/AFP/Getty Images)

But of course, they're probably not Jews, in that case it's open season right?

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.

And I answered your question, how come you never answer ours? Like what other country on earth would take repeated artillery fire on its cities from right next door without a harsh response?

No you didn't answer anything.

And, good question BTW considering Israel regular shells Gaza, then Hamas responds with rockets firecrackers, going by your exemplar logic the Hamas response is perfectly justified!

So where is it OK to shoot at non-Jews working fields in a demilitarized zone? Any examples bit_pattern?

Oh that's too easy - Gaza!

http://touch.dailymotion.com/#/video/xr71mq_gaza-farmers-risk-being-shot_news

 

[WildCat]

Israel arrests suspect in bus bombing.

Presumably he won't be shot and dragged through the streets in the next hour or so.

 

[bit_pattern]

Israel arrests suspect in bus bombing.

Presumably he won't be shot and dragged through the streets in the next hour or so.

Can you please show evidence to contradict the evidence you've already seen showing that the collaborators weren't snatched off the street on the day and were known collaborators, know to have been detained by Hamas?

And, to preempt the inevitable, I am not condoning public execution, I'm correcting Wildcat because i know he's seen the same report, yet keeps asserting something different. I want to know what other evidence has he seen and whether he can share it.

 

[WildCat]

Anywhere else in the world apparently. Here's North Koreans working the fields in the demilitarized zone, photographed from South Korea: http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_images/highres/2008-5-1-80924926.jpg

I get an error 404 on the image itself but the footnote says they were photographed from the DMZ, not that they're farming in the DMZ

Farm workers working the fields as photographed from the South Korean side of the border village of Panmunjom in the demilitarized zone. North Korea again runs the risk of outright famine, a leading US research institute said. (Kim Jae-Hwan/AFP/Getty Images)

Are you saying that those farmers are more than a mile and a quarter away from the photographer? Because that's the closest they could be from the S. Korean border. At any rate, Google Earth shows worked fields extending right up to the border on both sides. Apparently they don;t shoot farmers on tractors there.

Moronic argument is moronic. Sort of retort you'd expect from a child.

So you can't find an example of where it's OK to shoot a non-Jew in a demilitarized zone? Because it sure looks like it's only irresistable to shoot a Jew on a tractor in a demilitarized zone.

No you didn't answer anything.

And, good question BTW considering Israel regular shells Gaza, then Hamas responds with rockets firecrackers, going by your exemplar logic the Hamas response is perfectly justified!

So now you're just making stuff up. I guess that is the best you can do short of serious conversation.

Oh that's too easy - Gaza!

http://touch.dailymotion.com/#/video/xr71mq_gaza-farmers-risk-being-shot_news

That's not a demilitarized zone, and nobody was getting shot either.

Reminds me of the useful idiots who went to Iraq to be human shields in schools and libraries, and were shocked when Saddam wanted them stationed at military bases.