Were The OTIS Fighters Diverted?

Here,from History Commons:

"The 9/11 Commission will conclude that an order for other bases to prepare fighters to scramble is not given until 9:49 a.m. In fact, it appears the first fighters from other bases to take off are those from Syracuse at 10:42 a.m. (see 10:42 a.m. September 11, 2001). This is OVER an HOUR and a half after Syracuse’s initial offer to help, and not long after a general ban on all flights, including military ones, is lifted at 10:31 a.m. (see 10:31 a.m. September 11, 2001). These are apparently the fourth set of fighters scrambled from the ground. Previously, three fighters from Langley Air Force Base, two from Otis Air National Guard Base, and two from Toledo, Ohio, were scrambled at 10:01 a.m. (see 10:01 a.m. September 11, 2001), but did not launch until 15 minutes later. [Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001]"
 
Here,from History Commons:

"The 9/11 Commission will conclude that an order for other bases to prepare fighters to scramble is not given until 9:49 a.m. In fact, it appears the first fighters from other bases to take off are those from Syracuse at 10:42 a.m. (see 10:42 a.m. September 11, 2001). This is OVER an HOUR and a half after Syracuse’s initial offer to help, and not long after a general ban on all flights, including military ones, is lifted at 10:31 a.m. (see 10:31 a.m. September 11, 2001). These are apparently the fourth set of fighters scrambled from the ground. Previously, three fighters from Langley Air Force Base, two from Otis Air National Guard Base, and two from Toledo, Ohio, were scrambled at 10:01 a.m. (see 10:01 a.m. September 11, 2001), but did not launch until 15 minutes later. [Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001]"
This doesn't support your claim. Even if they did scramble when they first offered it wouldn't have done any good. You really need to get in touch with the time line and distances.

ETA: Syracuse is almost the same distance from NYC as Otis. Otis has the advantage of being over water the whole way.
 
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Here,from Wikipedia:

"According to the 9/11 commission, the Langley pilots were NEVER briefed by anyone at their base about why they were being scrambled, so, despite Langley officials' having been given the order from NEADS to fly to Washington, the unbriefed pilots ended up following their normal training flight plan, due east, out to sea."
So,whose job was it to brief the pilots? Wasn't that the job of SOF Capt Borgstrum? So,why didn't he brief the pilots? Because he was ordered up as a third pilot in an unarmed F16. Who ordered him up? "NEADS leadership"=Col. Marr. The same Col. Marr who ordered full arms on the ANG fighters though he KNEW it would keep them on the ground over an hour! The same Col. Marr who refused a Nasypany's request to scramble Langley at 9:09 though he HAD TO KNOWN AA11 might still be in the air & headed towards DC. The same Col. Marr who refused to relay the shoot down orders to the pilots. The same Col. Marr who delayed scrambling Otis by making an unneeded call to Gen Arnold. Obstruction after obstruction after obstruction ALL coming down to ONE man over & over again. A pattern.
 
Here,from History Commons:

"The 9/11 Commission will conclude that an order for other bases to prepare fighters to scramble is not given until 9:49 a.m. In fact, it appears the first fighters from other bases to take off are those from Syracuse at 10:42 a.m. (see 10:42 a.m. September 11, 2001). This is OVER an HOUR and a half after Syracuse’s initial offer to help, and not long after a general ban on all flights, including military ones, is lifted at 10:31 a.m. (see 10:31 a.m. September 11, 2001). These are apparently the fourth set of fighters scrambled from the ground. Previously, three fighters from Langley Air Force Base, two from Otis Air National Guard Base, and two from Toledo, Ohio, were scrambled at 10:01 a.m. (see 10:01 a.m. September 11, 2001), but did not launch until 15 minutes later. [Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001]"

I’m glad to see that with a little bit of an effort, you can answer your own questions. The 174th had to apply for authorization to fly after ATC Zero was declared.
 
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Here,from Wikipedia:

"According to the 9/11 commission, the Langley pilots were NEVER briefed by anyone at their base about why they were being scrambled, so, despite Langley officials' having been given the order from NEADS to fly to Washington, the unbriefed pilots ended up following their normal training flight plan, due east, out to sea."
So,whose job was it to brief the pilots? Wasn't that the job of SOF Capt Borgstrum? So,why didn't he brief the pilots? Because he was ordered up as a third pilot in an unarmed F16. Who ordered him up? "NEADS leadership"=Col. Marr. The same Col. Marr who ordered full arms on the ANG fighters though he KNEW it would keep them on the ground over an hour! The same Col. Marr who refused a Nasypany's request to scramble Langley at 9:09 though he HAD TO KNOWN AA11 might still be in the air & headed towards DC. The same Col. Marr who refused to relay the shoot down orders to the pilots. The same Col. Marr who delayed scrambling Otis by making an unneeded call to Gen Arnold. Obstruction after obstruction after obstruction ALL coming down to ONE man over & over again. A pattern.

So, you seem to think that when alert pilots receive a scramble order they head for the briefing room for a cup of coffee and a donut to discuss what they are going to do? Well that’s not the way it works.

Once again, Borgstrum’s aircraft was not unarmed, he had hot guns.

If Borgstrum had to brief the pilots, don’t you think he could have done that in the air? After all, he was a pilot, so I’m quite sure he could operate the radio.

BTW, being that you wanted to drag “The Boys from Syracuse” into your messed up theory, are you going to answer the questions I asked in my previous post?
 
Here,from Wikipedia:

"According to the 9/11 commission, the Langley pilots were NEVER briefed by anyone at their base about why they were being scrambled, so, despite Langley officials' having been given the order from NEADS to fly to Washington, the unbriefed pilots ended up following their normal training flight plan, due east, out to sea."

So, you seem to think that when alert pilots receive a scramble order they head for the briefing room for a cup of coffee and a donut to discuss what they are going to do? Well that’s not the way it works.

So,what do you think they talked about for the 15 minutes (time enough for donuts & coffee) they sat in their aircraft on the tarmac at Battle Stations? The weather? Nobody briefed them? It's wasn't Borgstrum job. He was just a pilot on this mission. It would have been the SOF's job,but there wasn't one. SOF's are "nonessential" you know,ask beechnut,but in this case the results of not having one were predicable which is why they made sure there wasn't one.

BTW-Col. Marr had the power to take control of the airspace anytime he wanted. He CHOOSE NOT TO.
 
Here,from Wikipedia:

"According to the 9/11 commission, the Langley pilots were NEVER briefed by anyone at their base about why they were being scrambled, so, despite Langley officials' having been given the order from NEADS to fly to Washington, the unbriefed pilots ended up following their normal training flight plan, due east, out to sea."
So,whose job was it to brief the pilots? Wasn't that the job of SOF Capt Borgstrum? So,why didn't he brief the pilots? Because he was ordered up as a third pilot in an unarmed F16. Who ordered him up? "NEADS leadership"=Col. Marr. The same Col. Marr who ordered full arms on the ANG fighters though he KNEW it would keep them on the ground over an hour! The same Col. Marr who refused a Nasypany's request to scramble Langley at 9:09 though he HAD TO KNOWN AA11 might still be in the air & headed towards DC. The same Col. Marr who refused to relay the shoot down orders to the pilots. The same Col. Marr who delayed scrambling Otis by making an unneeded call to Gen Arnold. Obstruction after obstruction after obstruction ALL coming down to ONE man over & over again. A pattern.
There are no pilots on alert, no pilots ready, no planes ready. lol, you don't have a clue, and are using the SOF claim again.

How is the SOF suppose to know where 77 is, no one knew. Zip. Have you tried to do a timeline of what was known when?

The only people in a position to know what was going on, and able to take action are on Flight 93. Passengers on Flight 93 figured out 911 in minutes, and you can't do the same given 11 years and the safety of your home, apartment, mom's basement, or where-ever. Not very good effort on your part, as you blame others because you can't figure out 911. People under the threat of death took action, and 911 truth can't do anything worthwhile.

If the SOF knew where to go, he would go there. If he knew it was terrorists and what to do, he may of broke all rules and run right out and shoot down 77. But 77 was not identified until after the impact; no one knew. No one knows were 93 is. Darn, so much for you fantasy.

You want based to launch planes because you know after 911 what happened on 911. You don't know much about anything other than quote-mining history commons, essentially hearsay. Good job


Yes, the SOF, if he knew what to do, could talk to the other pilots easier in the air, since his radios on the ground are limited to LOS. In the air he can lead, on the ground he has to coordinate; usually his communications are limited to passing information to ATC, and they talk to the fighters, and that would be unusual, since there is no mission before 911 over the USA, no real mission, only training. Big fail on 911 truth, they fail to study.

You think the USAF stood down, a lie you spread out of willful ignorance. Calling the military liars. You are so nice, what did you do on veterans day? Parade around calling service members liars? How did that go?

How many intercepts did NORAD do before 911 over the USA? List them.

When is the last time you sat alert? Pulled SOF duties? Pulled, oops... forgot we had to get out the super-nano-thermite every-time we "pulled" SOF duties, or "pulled" alert. 911 truth has to be the dumbest movement; I have a more respect for Bigfoot believers. Do Bigfoot believers blame the Government for their delusions? 911 truth does.

Are you on drugs? Do you even read what you write? Scoggins reported a target headed for DC. NEADS had no way of knowing it was a false report, so they treated it as an actual 'target' being reported by the FAA. If you have EVIDENCE, please present it. Otherwise, your comments sound like the rants of someone who has hit the bong one too many times.
And the answer is...
 
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So,what do you think they talked about for the 15 minutes (time enough for donuts & coffee) they sat in their aircraft on the tarmac at Battle Stations? The weather? Nobody briefed them? It's wasn't Borgstrum job. He was just a pilot on this mission. It would have been the SOF's job,but there wasn't one. SOF's are "nonessential" you know,ask beechnut,but in this case the results of not having one were predicable which is why they made sure there wasn't one.

BTW-Col. Marr had the power to take control of the airspace anytime he wanted. He CHOOSE NOT TO.

As with most posters that are trolling, you are placing a lot of emphasis on a point that means nothing. You seem to think that the SOF was needed to supply weather information to the pilots, when all the pilots had to do was look at the sky to see that the weather was CAVU.

What was Borgstrum going to tell the pilots about the mission? He didn’t know any more than what NEADS knew, which at that time was nothing. Was it necessary for the SOF to contact the FAA and explain what his jets were doing in their airspace? No. All the controllers had to see was the transponder codes of the jets to realize they were on a military operation.

In other words, and this is my own feeling, the SOF is more essential on a training mission than he is on a scramble mission.

BTW-Col. Marr had the power to take control of the airspace anytime he wanted. He CHOOSE NOT TO.

BS!
 
So,what do you think they talked about for the 15 minutes (time enough for donuts & coffee) they sat in their aircraft on the tarmac at Battle Stations? The weather? Nobody briefed them? It's wasn't Borgstrum job. He was just a pilot on this mission. It would have been the SOF's job,but there wasn't one. SOF's are "nonessential" you know,ask beechnut,but in this case the results of not having one were predicable which is why they made sure there wasn't one.

BTW-Col. Marr had the power to take control of the airspace anytime he wanted. He CHOOSE NOT TO.

What a continuing bunch of hooey! :rolleyes:

I don't care any more about this idiotic know nothing series of posts. It is simply speculation from someone who has no clue, and no evidence for anything other than delusions...

SOF briefs the weather? You've got to be kidding me. The pilots get a comprehensive briefing when they come on duty at the beginning of their alert period. If additional wx information is necessary they would call the wx folks and get updates. On the clear blue sky day it was not necessary...

The SOF is most commonly located in the Control Tower for fighter units. The location varies depending on the unit mission, i.e. training, tanker, etc. He has a bank of telephones and multiple radios. He does not normally talk to individual aircraft at all. His primary purpose is assisting in case of emergencies. Otherwise, he is most a coordinator between the aircraft, the command hierarchy, and other agencies to assist in accomplishing the assigned mission of the unit. A weather man he is NOT, nor does he brief wx information to anyone.

NEADS did declare AFIO when they had a target. Otherwise, why was it necessary? It wasn't called for at until they had a target. Stop twisting capability and hindsight to make insulting accusations to fit the stupid delusional theory. There was more than Marr at NEADS making decisions and under the circumstances regarding what they knew they were correct decisions.
 
What a continuing bunch of hooey! :rolleyes:

Thanks Reheat, you have far more patience than I do in explaining things to this goof. In all my years, I think I talked to a SOF one time. That was during an ORI when we had a maintenance problem, and he answered the call.
 
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The SOF is most commonly located in the Control Tower for fighter units. The location varies depending on the unit mission, i.e. training, tanker, etc. He has a bank of telephones and multiple radios. He does not normally talk to individual aircraft at all. His primary purpose is assisting in case of emergencies. Otherwise, he is most a coordinator between the aircraft, the command hierarchy , and other agencies to assist in accomplishing the assigned mission of the unit.

Thank you. Only there was NO SOF in the control tower that day & thus NO ONE was acting as a,"coordinator between the aircraft, the command hierarchy,and other (FAA/ATC?) agencies" just as Col. Marr KNEW there wouldn't be when he ordered the SOF up as a third pilot. The results were PREDICTABLE.
 
Actually,Redheat being so adamant about having a 'target' has made me think about something. Col. Marr ordered SOF Borgstrum up AFTER 175 hit WTC2 but BEFORE Scoggins report of Phantom 11 at 9:21. He ordered him up at a time when they had NO TARGET,knew of NO hijacked aircraft,and had NO reason to think they'd need to scramble a third plane out of Langley! Why? Because he knew he'd need the SOF out of the way because he KNEW what was coming. Only a conspirator could have known what was coming!
 
Actually,Redheat being so adamant about having a 'target' has made me think about something. Col. Marr ordered SOF Borgstrum up AFTER 175 hit WTC2 but BEFORE Scoggins report of Phantom 11 at 9:21. He ordered him up at a time when they had NO TARGET,knew of NO hijacked aircraft,and had NO reason to think they'd need to scramble a third plane out of Langley! Why? Because he knew he'd need the SOF out of the way because he KNEW what was coming. Only a conspirator could have known what was coming!

Only a seriously deluded individual would believe that. SOF had NOTHING to do with the events of 9/11, one way or the other. Happy Thanksgiving!
 
Only a seriously deluded individual would believe that. SOF had NOTHING to do with the events of 9/11, one way or the other. Happy Thanksgiving!

So what are the chances of Frank reading your comment and assuming that the first full stop that you used was a mistake and that you are if fact agreeing with him.
:D
 
So what are the chances of Frank reading your comment and assuming that the first full stop that you used was a mistake and that you are if fact agreeing with him.
:D

Pretty good actually.
 
Actually,Redheat being so adamant about having a 'target' has made me think about something. Col. Marr ordered SOF Borgstrum up AFTER 175 hit WTC2 but BEFORE Scoggins report of Phantom 11 at 9:21. He ordered him up at a time when they had NO TARGET,knew of NO hijacked aircraft,and had NO reason to think they'd need to scramble a third plane out of Langley! Why? Because he knew he'd need the SOF out of the way because he KNEW what was coming. Only a conspirator could have known what was coming!

So one guy, the SOF, could have blown the whole plan out of the water?
 
Actually,without first full stop (period) his statement is truthful. With it,it's a part of the cover up.
Yes,perhaps,one guy...Langley's SOF could have ruined the Pentagon part of 911,which is why the conspirators (Col. Marr etc.) made sure there was NO SOF at Langley that day.
 
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Actually,without first full stop (period) his statement is truthful. With it,it's a part of the cover up.
Yes,perhaps,one guy...Langley's SOF could have ruined the Pentagon part of 911,which is why the conspirators (Col. Marr etc.) made sure there was NO SOF at Langley that day.

Yes Frank, it's amazing how omitting one dot of information can paint a completely false picture.
 
Actually,without first full stop (period) his statement is truthful. With it,it's a part of the cover up.
Yes,perhaps,one guy...Langley's SOF could have ruined the Pentagon part of 911,which is why the conspirators (Col. Marr etc.) made sure there was NO SOF at Langley that day.
No one knew were 77 was, how would the SOF tell other planes he can't talk to about an aircraft he has no knowledge of? Go ahead, explain in detail, with RADAR, etc, how anyone could intercept 77? You can't explain when they figured out 77 was the plane that hit the Pentagon?

Are you a pilot for truth member posting nonsense, teasing JREF? Wait, you can't be, that would take original thinking, pilots for truth don't think. However, you claims are as dumb as the idiotic nonsense from Balsamo, his delusional nuts and failed pilots.

You are not covering up your ignorance of flying. Happy Thanksgiving, you join the disrespectful spreaders of BS and fantasy on 911. You are good at spreading lies; your parents and family must be so proud. Happy Thanksgiving.

Add me as a conspirator, I was on active duty on 911, a pilot in the USAF. What are you going to do about it? Nothing, just like the failed pilot Balsamo.

You have no clue what the SOF does, you don't understand what you look up, what you read. Your SOF stuff, makes your theory a dumber fantasy.

Maybe when you read you mess up the meaning, because you don't understand SOF duties. Did 60 Minutes point out your failure? Did you tell 60 Minutes about your evidence? Wait, you only have an opinion. An opinion not supported with facts.
 
Here,from Wikipedia:

"According to the 9/11 commission, the Langley pilots were NEVER briefed by anyone at their base about why they were being scrambled, so, despite Langley officials' having been given the order from NEADS to fly to Washington, the unbriefed pilots ended up following their normal training flight plan, due east, out to sea."

So,whose job was it to brief the pilots? Wasn't that the job of SOF Capt Borgstrum? So,why didn't he brief the pilots?
Hold up. You haven't even proven it was his job.

Because he was ordered up as a third pilot in an unarmed F16. Who ordered him up? "NEADS leadership"=Col. Marr. The same Col. Marr who ordered full arms on the ANG fighters though he KNEW it would keep them on the ground over an hour! The same Col. Marr who refused a Nasypany's request to scramble Langley at 9:09 though he HAD TO KNOWN AA11 might still be in the air & headed towards DC. The same Col. Marr who refused to relay the shoot down orders to the pilots. The same Col. Marr who delayed scrambling Otis by making an unneeded call to Gen Arnold. Obstruction after obstruction after obstruction ALL coming down to ONE man over & over again. A pattern.
If they had stopped to brief them, you'd be citing that as evidence of stalling, as you did with Col. Marr. You do realize the whole point of a scramble is to get going as fast as feasibly possible?
 

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