General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Virus]

although the USA has an embargo on cuba, people can still come and go to cuba as they wish..

Can't.

 

[bit_pattern]

So you don't believe Hamas and other militant groups when they disclose that negotiated agreements with Israel are simply temporary positions which present better opportunities to defeat it?

Yes, yes. Thanks for AGAIN illustrating my point so succinctly but, please, the novelty has worn off - the other thread has thousands of examples of your style of histrionics, on quite familiar with it now.

 

[trustbutverify]

Yes, yes. Thanks for AGAIN illustrating my point so succinctly but, please, the novelty has worn off - the other thread has thousands of examples of your style of histrionics, on quite familiar with it now.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

The degree of terror felt by ordinary Palestinian civilians in Gaza is barely noticed in the media

This is why I hate Israel/Palestine discussions. I'm not getting into how the Norwegian media is extensively covering just this, but...

...how exactly do you propose we go to war against someone without terrifying their civilian populace? Has there been a single invasion or bombing in history where the civilians (or soldiers) remained perfectly calm?

Ya. This is why I have him on ignore (checked the thread while off-line).

 

[MarkCorrigan]

This is why I hate Israel/Palestine discussions. I'm not getting into how the Norwegian media is extensively covering just this, but...

...how exactly do you propose we go to war against someone without terrifying their civilian populace? Has there been a single invasion or bombing in history where the civilians (or soldiers) remained perfectly calm?

It's made even worse when you remember (as is often conveniently forgotten) that Hamas militants ARE civilians. They aren't a formal army at all, just zealous civilians with rocket launchers, AK's and a burning hatred of Israel.

I hate to see children die in any conflict, and the death of civilians is something that should be restricted every single way it can be, but when your opposition could literally be anyone...well it becomes a little more murky then.

 

[angrysoba]

This is why I hate Israel/Palestine discussions. I'm not getting into how the Norwegian media is extensively covering just this, but...

...how exactly do you propose we go to war against someone without terrifying their civilian populace? Has there been a single invasion or bombing in history where the civilians (or soldiers) remained perfectly calm?

Ya. This is why I have him on ignore (checked the thread while off-line).

The UK, obviously:

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Both warring parties are in political deadlock, within their own ranks, let alone with each other. (snipped rest of post)

Thank you. Very informative. It all makes far more sense now.

The UK, obviously:

I considered making that joke, too.

 

[bikerdruid]

Can't.

other than coming from the USA, cuba has a vigourous tourist industry.
so, can.

 

[trustbutverify]

Here we go again.

 

[bikerdruid]

what do you make of this?
just over a minute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtuBas3Ipw

 

[bit_pattern]

This is why I hate Israel/Palestine discussions. I'm not getting into how the Norwegian media is extensively covering just this, but...

...how exactly do you propose we go to war against someone without terrifying their civilian populace? Has there been a single invasion or bombing in history where the civilians (or soldiers) remained perfectly calm?

Ya. This is why I have him on ignore (checked the thread while off-line).

Yet, according to the media narrative, we should empathise with the million poor Israelis that have to cower in their bomb shelters? Its the hypocrisy that is at issue not the fact that bombs induce terror

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Yet, according to the media narrative, we should empathise with the million poor Israelis that have to cower in their bomb shelters? Its the hypocrisy that is at issue not the fact that bombs induce terror

Here's an idea then. Stop Hamas shooting rockets into Israel.

 

[PhantomWolf]

As for who it is that is targeting children... Here's a list just from October.

- One of the rockets landed in a petting zoo in the Eshkol Regional Council, killing two goats and wounding nine other goats. A worker stated that the zoo was usually "packed with children" but was empty at the time because of the holiday

- a Grad missile (was fired) into Netivot, which exploded in the backyard of a family home. Shrapnel pierced the walls of the home and penetrated a child's bedroom (luckily empty).

- one of (seven rockets) struck a kindergarten. The building was damaged, but no one was in it at the time

- Mayor Rubik Danilovich explained that the decision (to close schools) resulted from experience, saying, "We've had four direct hits on schools, and each of those times was when we were told to resume normalcy."

 

[MarkCorrigan]

As for who it is that is targeting children... Here's a list just from October.

- One of the rockets landed in a petting zoo in the Eshkol Regional Council, killing two goats and wounding nine other goats. A worker stated that the zoo was usually "packed with children" but was empty at the time because of the holiday

- a Grad missile (was fired) into Netivot, which exploded in the backyard of a family home. Shrapnel pierced the walls of the home and penetrated a child's bedroom (luckily empty).

- one of (seven rockets) struck a kindergarten. The building was damaged, but no one was in it at the time

- Mayor Rubik Danilovich explained that the decision (to close schools) resulted from experience, saying, "We've had four direct hits on schools, and each of those times was when we were told to resume normalcy."

Would those be Palestinian rockets hitting Israeli civilian areas?

Good lord, and I thought such a thing never happened.

 

[bit_pattern]

Here's an idea then. Stop Hamas shooting rockets into Israel.

Here's an idea then. Stop the IDF from going into Gaza with helicopters and ranks to murder children and mentally disabled civilians (that's what provoked the rocket attacks, after all, why does Israel have the right to protect their citizens but Hamas be expected to just roll over when Israel murders and terrorises Palestinian citizens?)

The raging hypocrisy and confirmation bias that instructs the Israel Über Alles crowd on JREF never ceases to amaze me.

 

[tyr_13]

Here's an idea then. Stop the IDF from going into Gaza with helicopters and ranks to murder children and mentally disabled civilians (that's what provoked the rocket attacks, after all, why does Israel have the right to protect their citizens but Hamas be expected to just roll over when Israel murders and terrorises Palestinian citizens?)

The raging hypocrisy and confirmation bias that instructs the Israel Über Alles crowd on JREF never ceases to amaze me.

This is possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the JREF. Israel-Palestine threads are full of fail.

EDIT: To be clear, claiming that what Israel did was to murder children and the mentally disabled is such vile spinning and so devoid of merit that I have no words but to call it 'dumb'. To claim that the rocket attacks are because of it while also a lie, pales in wrongness next to the other statement.

 

[trustbutverify]

This is possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the JREF. Israel-Palestine threads are full of fail.

Everyone knows the IDF goes into Gaza to murder children and mentally diabled civilians. **** Israel!

 

[PhantomWolf]

Here's an idea then. Stop the IDF from going into Gaza with helicopters and ranks to murder children and mentally disabled civilians (that's what provoked the rocket attacks, after all, why does Israel have the right to protect their citizens but Hamas be expected to just roll over when Israel murders and terrorises Palestinian citizens?)

The raging hypocrisy and confirmation bias that instructs the Israel Über Alles crowd on JREF never ceases to amaze me.

Yeah because the 800 rocket attacks this year up to and including the 116 in October were all because of what would happen in Nov. I guess the Palestinians should be applying for the Randi Millions.

 

[bit_pattern]

This is possibly one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the JREF. Israel-Palestine threads are full of fail.

EDIT: To be clear, claiming that what Israel did was to murder children and the mentally disabled is such vile spinning and so devoid of merit that I have no words but to call it 'dumb'. To claim that the rocket attacks are because of it while also a lie, pales in wrongness next to the other statement.

http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/n..._host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=US&.lang=en-US

 

[MarkCorrigan]

How...how does that support what you're saying sorry?

A guy crawls towards the border fence in an area that is regularly attacked by militants firing on Israelis. The Israeli border guard tells him to stop. He doesn't understand because he's mentally ill and keeps going. The command to stop is repeated several times, then because he is getting very close, he is shot.

It's tragic, but it neither demonstrates that the IDF want to kill mentally handicapped people or children, nor does it make them look like monsters. It makes them look like soldiers who are regularly attacked by civilian militants shooting someone that, as far as they could tell, refused to stop advancing on them.