• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Hostess workers strike may kill company

StankApe

Banned
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
4,628
Apparently Hostess is in Chapter 11 and asked for labor cuts to keep it afloat and the union said no. A judge allowed Hostess to enact the contract without the union's approval and now the have gone on strike.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostess-shuts-3-plants-035700490.html


Now, I'm no expert on labor relations nor contracts, but on a common sense level it seems that it's better to take a pay cut than it is to lose your job entirely doesn't it?
 
Now, I'm no expert on labor relations nor contracts, but on a common sense level it seems that it's better to take a pay cut than it is to lose your job entirely doesn't it?

You have to understand that if these brave workers don't sacrifice themselves nobly for the rest of us, we'll all lose our 40-hour work weeks and two-day weekends. That is how important unions are.
 
Bahh, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Unions are as soul sucking and part of the problem as any corporate management team. It's not 1890 anymore ya know.

I get why people join unions, but I don't get why unions protect bad workers and allow their members to lose their jobs because the company will go under without a new deal in place. It's not like Hostess is just being hardassed about a deal, it appears they may be out of business if something isn't worked out. Striking a company out of business seems like a really dumb way to handle a problem.

YAY WE WON, WAIT.... WE HAVE NO JOB ANYMORE......
 
Apparently Hostess is in Chapter 11 and asked for labor cuts to keep it afloat and the union said no. A judge allowed Hostess to enact the contract without the union's approval and now the have gone on strike.

Now, I'm no expert on labor relations nor contracts, but on a common sense level it seems that it's better to take a pay cut than it is to lose your job entirely doesn't it?

Hostess is no stranger to Ding Dongs.
 
Last edited:
Apparently Hostess is in Chapter 11 and asked for labor cuts to keep it afloat and the union said no. A judge allowed Hostess to enact the contract without the union's approval and now the have gone on strike.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostess-shuts-3-plants-035700490.html


Now, I'm no expert on labor relations nor contracts, but on a common sense level it seems that it's better to take a pay cut than it is to lose your job entirely doesn't it?

" limits workers' participation in pension plans." Paycut probably secondary.

The most likely cause of any given strike is incomplete information on one or both sides. In the case of the management its usualy that they don't know how ready the workers are to strike.

In this case the union doesn't know how truthful management are being. Its entirely possible that the company is savable without reducing worker's pay and management are simply taking the opportunity to try and cut costs. Its also entirely possible that the company is unsavable in which case the employees should be trying to get as much out as possible before the thing crashes and burns.
 
Bahh, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Unions are as soul sucking and part of the problem as any corporate management team. It's not 1890 anymore ya know.

I get why people join unions, but I don't get why unions protect bad workers and allow their members to lose their jobs because the company will go under without a new deal in place. It's not like Hostess is just being hardassed about a deal, it appears they may be out of business if something isn't worked out. Striking a company out of business seems like a really dumb way to handle a problem.

YAY WE WON, WAIT.... WE HAVE NO JOB ANYMORE......

There's only one solution to this problem... We need a bail out!
 
Let it burn! We can go on 99-weeks of unemployment! With free Obamacare! And then, uh, uh, ... tax the rich! /union-mode
 
Of course. As a society, we do it all the time. Theft, embezzlement, etc., lots of "rational economic strategies" are objectionable.

However in this case there is no reason why the stratergy should be considered objectionable. The employees would just be acting in the same way as everyone else.
 
The proposal that the union rejected was a combination of wage cuts and benefit cuts and pension freeze for two years, that would be used to pay for equipment upgrades. Then the cuts would be relaxed in the third year if revenue picks up.

A question that the bakers face is, whether they can hold out for those two years (or more) at the proposed wages and benefits or whether the cuts are so severe that they might as well leave for other work. The company will suffer from the strike, but it will also suffer if it loses many bakers through attrition.

Since the Teamsters section of the company's workforce accepted the proposal, this isn't quite a case of "them darned unions" and "their mentality."
 
Last edited:
I have taken up the hobby of watching old movies on TCM (Turner Classic Movies -I forget people around the world see this and might not have this channel. It is a cable channel that shows commercial free, unedited movies usually from the 1930's to 1960's, and occasionally older movies clear back to first one-reelers from 1912, and a few newer movies). There are a couple of other channels w/old stuff but mainly TCM (wow, sorry so off topic just to set up my viewing habbits.... sorry)

Anyway I really like stuff from early 1930's, when America was dealing with prohibition and the rampant criminal mobs that flooded America. One theme in a lot of these is the small business guy being visited by some thugs to join the local ”Businessman's Protection Society”. These (usually in the movies) ”mom-and-pop” stores were told that they needed to ”join” these organizations to protect themselves from criminals. They had to pony up what was usually a lot of money for them, and if they refused, at first windows were broken and eventually it was legs that got broken or the store burned down. These ”protection” rackets were commonplace back then, until of course in the movie either the FBI, or the ”hero” brought them down. Of course these are movies, but it is hard not to see parallels between these ”rackets” and unions today.

In all fairness, another common movie theme back then was poor/dangerous working conditions for little pay. But, today, if anything, employers deal with outrageous rules sometimes to make conditions safer. In the 50's it seems like gangsters found that they could still extort businesses, but do it legally by forming a ”union”. This is proven by the undeniable fact that many union were, and still are, run by people of ”questionable” character and intentions. What was a great idea at first, asking for a ”living” wage, and safe conditions now results in outrageous labor costs, and a company losing the ability to get rid of bad employees. Many of the companies that have found that the unions have made the cost of labor so high in the US they ship jobs overseas. I think it is great to see a company take a stand, and it is stupid for workers to pick the worst economy in US history, along with huge unemployment. Where do these folks think they will find another job?

Of course ”union leaders” are willing to gamble with their members jobs. As union reps, they are paid from the dues of everyone around the country, so who cares if a couple thousand jobs are lost to ”stand up” for their union rights. You got people literally giving 10+% of their paycheck to support union leaders making hundreds of thousands of dollars/year. It is nothing but old fashioned ”protection”, but instead of breaking a window if the business doesn't pay, the workers will ”strike”. I think you will see more and more companies tell unions to ”get lost”. Hell, why would a company keep factories open when any profits left after paying the extortion, will now be taxed to hell. Why not downsize, save the jobs for people that are just happy to have them. And, open a plant in Mexico where people appreciate being able to feed their kids. This is where America is going. The government is regulating and the unions are extorting, and its just not worth risking money here to try to grow a business. Take the money you would have spent opening a factory and employing 1000 people, and buy a company overseas where making a profit (the ultimate goal of EVERY business) is not a crime.

The scariest part is that the fastest growing sector of Union workers, is GOVERNMENT employees. That means that WE are paying a janitor $27.50/hr, plus another $20/hr in benefits and pension. And when the janitor is caught putting video cameras in the womens bathroom, and smoking crack in the broom closet, he gets paid leave fir fully paid drug treatment, and then gets more paid leave for therapy for his ”personal issues”, and if he is fired, he sues for ”wrongful termination”, and ”settles” out of court because it is cheaper to pay him six figures then pay lawyers to fight him in court.

Why are people so blind to the idea that when a union comes in and increases wages and benefits, its not a ”win” for workers. It means that the added cost of the union will be reflected in the prices of whatever they make. And when the ”union” is representing government employees... you are just increasing the amount of money YOUR children will be on the hook for in higher taxes for life. The ONLY people really seeing the benefit is the union leaders who can now hold ”retreats” with more hookers and booze.
 
Now, I'm no expert on labor relations nor contracts, but on a common sense level it seems that it's better to take a pay cut than it is to lose your job entirely doesn't it?
Once upon a time, when I was a young engineer filled with dot-com era optimism and pro-business ideology, I spent several months working for a struggling startup for "deferred pay." I was the last engineer to find another job and quit. Wouldn't you agree that, despite having work to do and some money owed to me in the company's books, I was a sucker?
 

Back
Top Bottom