Marijuana and states rights

[Puppycow]

Did you notice that two states just voted to legalize marijuana for recreational purposes?

Voters Ease Marijuana Laws in 2 States, but Legal Questions Remain

DENVER — For supporters of legalizing marijuana, it was a historic moment, one that drew comparisons to the end of Prohibition: On Tuesday, voters in Colorado and Washington State made it legal to smoke pot recreationally, without any prescription or medical excuse.

But as Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado cautioned voters on Tuesday night: “Don’t break out the Cheetos or the Goldfish too quickly.”

For one thing, it will be a month before the measures are officially on the books, and longer still before state officials write the rules, tax codes and other regulations creating new state-licensed retail marijuana shops. But the larger, looming problem is a clash with the federal government, which still views marijuana as a Schedule I prohibited substance and has cracked down on states, like California and Montana, that have voted to allow medical marijuana.

In a statement on Wednesday, a spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Agency said the Justice Department was reviewing the ballot measures and declined to comment directly on how officials would respond to them. But he said the agency’s enforcement of federal drug laws “remains unchanged.” The United States attorneys in Denver and Seattle responded with nearly identical statements, offering no clue on whether they would sue to block the measures from being put into effect.

It is a murky landscape now, one that potentially pits voters who supported President Obama and legalization against the president’s own Justice Department. In 2010, weeks before California voted on an unsuccessful initiative to legalize marijuana, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. announced that authorities would still aggressively prosecute marijuana laws.

IIRC a previous Supreme Court ruling held that the federal government could still enforce federal laws prohibiting marijuana under the Commerce Clause. So the Justice Dept. could squelch this if they want to. But that would be the heavy hand of big government overruling the will of the voters. Do they really want to go down that road? I hope that they finally see how pointless it all is. If they are looking for things in the budget to cut to help ease the deficit, why not this for starters?

 

[Ausmerican]

IMy hopes are much the same as the OPs.
My expectations are for lawsuits though.

 

[bozothedeathmachine]

I'm hoping this will be one of the effects of Obama's not needing to run for election again. He can effectively ignore this now without repercussions. Then when 2016 rolls around everyone will see Washington and Colorado have not collapsed into anarchy and may actually show a fiscal benefit. Add to that the State's Rights angle, and nobody will have any well-founded arguments against the prohibition, especially the small-government Right.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Marijuana is still illegal under federal law. But the FBI isn’t going to be going after people with the small amounts of pot allowed by the state laws. If you get arrested by the FBI for some crime and happen to have some pot on you, they may add that charge, but then you probably have bigger issues to deal with anyway.

One major issue would probably be carrying pot when flying within the state. TSA is federal and will search for drugs and if you are caught you could well be arrested under federal law.

The feds, or even the state, could crack down on growers and distributors. Unless you are growing your own, you are getting it from somebody who has more than an once and could be busted even under state law.

People even in the Obama administration have vowed to crack down on marijuana, but it hasn’t happened.

Federal law has no provision for “medical” marijuana. Marijuana is illegal at the federal level, period. But California has had medical marijuana and marijuana growers and distributors operating for years and the feds haven’t done anything.

Growers and distributors run a risk, but the feds haven’t done much so far. People possessing while encountering federal official, such as air travel, could run into trouble. Average joe smoker doesn’t have much to worry about.

 

[Puppycow]

Marijuana is still illegal under federal law. But the FBI isn’t going to be going after people with the small amounts of pot allowed by the state laws. If you get arrested by the FBI for some crime and happen to have some pot on you, they may add that charge, but then you probably have bigger issues to deal with anyway.

One major issue would probably be carrying pot when flying within the state. TSA is federal and will search for drugs and if you are caught you could well be arrested under federal law.

The feds, or even the state, could crack down on growers and distributors. Unless you are growing your own, you are getting it from somebody who has more than an once and could be busted even under state law.

People even in the Obama administration have vowed to crack down on marijuana, but it hasn’t happened.

Federal law has no provision for “medical” marijuana. Marijuana is illegal at the federal level, period. But California has had medical marijuana and marijuana growers and distributors operating for years and the feds haven’t done anything.

Growers and distributors run a risk, but the feds haven’t done much so far. People possessing while encountering federal official, such as air travel, could run into trouble. Average joe smoker doesn’t have much to worry about.

Are you sure about that?

Is Rolling Stone straight-up lying here, or were you perhaps unaware of these actions?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Are you sure about that?

Is Rolling Stone straight-up lying here, or were you perhaps unaware of these actions?

I guess I'm not. I was unaware of this. I heard about a couple crackdowns, but nothing more and assumed it was just keeping things in check.

This seems very bizarre to me. Obama doesn’t strike me as a person who would have a big issue with marijuana and I don’t really see the political angle (other than not looking soft on drugs, but that wouldn’t warrant this type of extended crackdown).

Is Obama really committed to this anti-marijuana stance?

 

[Halfcentaur]

Is Obama really committed to this anti-marijuana stance?

It remains to be seen. He was cracking down earlier in his term.

Attorney General Eric Holder claimed they would be cracking down on any state who tried this, but for the last year he's been completely silent on these measures. His silence was so unusual, 9 former heads of the DEA have been trying to call him out on this claiming his silence is condoning these initiatives. He's still yet to say anything.

 

[Puppycow]

Is Obama really committed to this anti-marijuana stance?

I think maybe he's just not very interested in it, and doesn't want to do anything controversial about it. So he left in place a Bush appointee at the DEA and left it to her to run his drug policy.

The Rolling Stone article may be a little hyperbolic in tone, but unless political pressure is brought to bear, there may be little incentive for Obama to do anything about this.

 

[bozothedeathmachine]

Is Obama really committed to this anti-marijuana stance?

Perhaps as much as his gay marriage stance?

Four years ago:


6 months ago:

 

[Border Reiver]

Gotta admit that I'm interested in how this plays out, as this change in US laws is bound to have a ripple effect across the border (especially given that Washington State is right on the border.)

 

[Puppycow]

Gotta admit that I'm interested in how this plays out, as this change in US laws is bound to have a ripple effect across the border (especially given that Washington State is right on the border.)

Isn't pot already legal in BC?

 

[BenBurch]

NM, misunderstood.

 

[Beerina]

Police in some cities in those areas said they're still gonna enforce it through federal law.

 

[Spindrift]

Police in some cities in those areas said they're still gonna enforce it through federal law.

Local police can enforce federal law?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Are you sure about that?

Is Rolling Stone straight-up lying here, or were you perhaps unaware of these actions?

Yeah, it was a bit of a shock that Obama opted to enforce the federal marijuana laws.

Note that Gonzales v. Raich didn't make marijuana illegal. It merely says that Congress has the authority to make it illegal. They also have the authority to make it legal. They could take it off the list of Controlled Substances.

This should be an eventful few years coming forward. I doubt the state laws will survive legal challenges (since it would require reversing Gonzales v. Raich and really wouldn't fit with well established Commerce Clause jurisprudence). But if the Obama administration changes its position and just looks the other way. . who knows?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Local police can enforce federal law?

I'm pretty sure all municipal and state police swear an oath of office that includes upholding the U.S. Constitution as well as their state's constitution.

I don't know about the jurisdictional question (which really deals with where anyone busted would be charged and tried).

It's a good question.

 

[WildCat]

Police in some cities in those areas said they're still gonna enforce it through federal law.

Good luck getting a busy federal prosecutor and federal courts to waste time prosecuting a guy for possessing a few grams of weed.

 

[Monkey Tuesday]

I wonder if under RICO the feds could confiscate all taxes from these two states and make them prove they didn't come from pot sales.

 

[WildCat]

I wonder if under RICO the feds could confiscate all taxes from these two states and make them prove they didn't come from pot sales.

I think they'll just avoid that by letting people grow their own.

IIRC that's why California never taxed their medical marijuana, under such threats from the feds to prosecute state officials as drug dealers.

And as I pointed out here before there's really not that much money to be made taxing marijuana. People can only consume so much of it (a tiny fraction of what tobacco users consume) and the ease with which it can be grown limits the amount of tax that can be imposed. Colorado's estimate of tax receipts seems pretty close IMHO, but Washington's dreams of billions in tax revenue is pure fantasy.

 

[Monkey Tuesday]

I think they'll just avoid that by letting people grow their own.

IIRC that's why California never taxed their medical marijuana, under such threats from the feds to prosecute state officials as drug dealers.

And as I pointed out here before there's really not that much money to be made taxing marijuana. People can only consume so much of it (a tiny fraction of what tobacco users consume) and the ease with which it can be grown limits the amount of tax that can be imposed. Colorado's estimate of tax receipts seems pretty close IMHO, but Washington's dreams of billions in tax revenue is pure fantasy.

You could be right but I seem to remember seeing that most "medical" marijuana was taxed. I'll have to look into it. As to your other point you are just wrong. Pot can be really cheap to produce, as cheap as coffee, and the tax on it could be 2 or 300% and it would still be cheaper then street prices.