Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Tomtomkent]

Babies are over vaccinated.

Yeah, lets not treat your unsupported assertion as any kind of proffessional medical opinion.

Suppose your baby was coming down with something that will cause a fever that was 4/6/8 hours away from being discernible?

Uh-huh. This is not going to be a hypothetical situation where we have to assume that your argument is right so you can claim it is right...

And the vaccine(s) caused a fever that was accelerated by till now the undetected fever?

Has this ever happened? The evidence suggests no.

You call the doctor who says that fever is normal. Will you know if the baby's fever becomes dangerous?

Yes. Because like most doctors mine would rather I rung back with further information to be told not to worry, or made a call out to be given the all clear, than discover too late there was a problem. Any disease that can cause a fever can get worse, with or with out a vaccine. The situation does not change if the hypothetical fever is caused by your unsupported assertions about vaccinations, or any other cause of fevers that might be undetected at first. What if the fever looked "normal" but might be Weils disease? Oh NO!

Will a baby cry differently?

Yes.

If all baby sounds are the same to you, then you probably have bigger concerns than ill informed and unsupported assertions about vaccines.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Here is the horrible truth about anthrax vaccines and the Gulf War Syndrome.


http://www.hspig.org/MT/weblogs-hspig/archives/2004/11/anthrax_vaccine.html


http://www.hspig.org/MT/weblogs-hspig/archives/2004/11/anthrax_vaccine.html

How many of the "facts" in those blogs have you been able to varify from reputable peer reviewed sources or tracable records?

 

[Croydon Bob]

BTW I posted/linked to many doctors in this thread.

Not many; but one was Dr Ben Goldacre, author of Bad Pharma. A skeptic whose work helps to refute all your idiotic fantasy.

How about linking to a doctor who isn't actively opposed to anti-vax lies?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Funny how CTs rarely accept people can be honestly wrong about concepts outside of their expertise.

I wonder... It's pretty well known that most conspiracy theorists claim (through actions more than outright claims) knowledge on a wide range of topics superior to that of respected professionals in those fields.

If they projected this attitude onto others (essentially, "everyone knows everything about everything") it would explain their general inability to accept that people are simply wrong about something. If you're wrong about something, you're probably just ignorant about it; but if you're not ignorant about anything, you must be lying.

 

[332nd]

Babies are over vaccinated.

Suppose your baby was coming down with something that will cause a fever that was 4/6/8 hours away from being discernible? And the vaccine(s) caused a fever that was accelerated by till now the undetected fever? You call the doctor who says that fever is normal. Will you know if the baby's fever becomes dangerous?

Will a baby cry differently?

The doctors tell you to monitor the baby's temperature just for such an event. Most will even give you a thermometer if you don't have one. If the temperature reaches what you consider a dangerous level you get them medical attention.

& Yes, some do cry differently.

See? I answered your question. Now let's see if you can answer mine.

Is he lying?

 

[jdc324]

Here is the horrible truth about anthrax vaccines and the Gulf War Syndrome.


http://www.hspig.org/MT/weblogs-hspig/archives/2004/11/anthrax_vaccine.html






http://www.hspig.org/MT/weblogs-hspig/archives/2004/11/anthrax_vaccine.html

We've already done anthrax vaccines and GWS in this thread. The posts were moved by a mod for some reason. You can find my reply here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8680983&postcount=59

 

[000063]

Clay, do you know the difference between being wrong and a lie?

Read between the lines and you will see a looming tag team of thieves and prevaricators. Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, nig vaccines, the scientific community that can't figure out the cause of GWS nor the cause of Autism, Wall Street, the crying of WMD, the fracking is safe people, democracy builders, Ground Zero was safe for first responders, and many more.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/lance-armstrong-and-americas-growing-culture-of-psychopathic-liars.html

So I ask you a simple question, and you spam an unrelated rant. Hm.

Erm, it seems to be "A claim that you should watch a seven minute video".

Assuming the guy was honest, he was wrong. No lies needed. Funny how CTs rarely accept people can be honestly wrong about concepts outside of their expertise.

Exactly. Clay says every fact he doesn't like is a lie, even when it is impossible for him to know that. Or he just ignores it entirely.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Has this ever happened? The evidence suggests no.

Do you take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

If not why don't parents take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Originally Posted by 000063 View Post
Clay, do you know the difference between being wrong and a lie?


Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
Read between the lines and you will see a looming tag team of thieves and prevaricators. Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, nig vaccines, the scientific community that can't figure out the cause of GWS nor the cause of Autism, Wall Street, the crying of WMD, the fracking is safe people, democracy builders, Ground Zero was safe for first responders, and many more.

So I ask you a simple question, and you spam an unrelated rant. Hm.

Rant?

The point was that between American citizens and the Golden Rule

a looming tag team of thieves and prevaricators. Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, Big vaccines, the scientific community that can't figure out the cause of GWS nor the cause of Autism, Wall Street, the crying of WMD, the fracking is safe people, democracy builders, Ground Zero was safe for first responders, and many more.

 

[Dcdrac]

Mr moore you have no prvided no evidence at all for your assertions nor have you prvided evidence from a MEDICAl Dr for any of it.

Andrew Wakefield does not count he is a proven fraud and has been struck off.

 

[000063]

Do you take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

If not why don't parents take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

The same reason you don't give a speeding ticket to someone who's just been in a car crash.

Rant?

The point was that between American citizens and the Golden Rule

a looming tag team of thieves and prevaricators. Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, Big vaccines, the scientific community that can't figure out the cause of GWS nor the cause of Autism, Wall Street, the crying of WMD, the fracking is safe people, democracy builders, Ground Zero was safe for first responders, and many more.

None of which answers the my simple question. Let me be more clear;

Is it possible, ever, for someone to be incorrect without actively saying something they think is false?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Do you take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

If not why don't parents take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

For the same reason I put sandbags down before the flood not when the water is up to my chin.

Because I know what the "preventative" in preventative medicine means, how vaccines work and what they do not do.

Why would you suggest that?

 

[Dcdrac]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/car...e-need-to-keep_1_b_2008032.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Carolyn Miller

Chief Executive of international health charity Merlin

Polio: Why we Need to Keep on Fighting

Posted: 24/10/2012 10:31

Like most people who have grown up in the UK, I used to think of polio as more or less eradicated. I do remember one boy in my school with a leg in a brace but he still played games. And that was a long while ago. In the Central African Republic (CAR) I found proof that polio is frighteningly common.

This is why Merlin is aiming to vaccinate nearly half a million children. In Africa's forgotten country, there are villages where 94% of children have never received a vaccination. The consequences are clear and poignant. In Bawi, a small village in the north west of the country, it is still possible to find children with twisted limbs. In the next village, there are another six cases of polio - young children's lives blighted by a disease which can easily be vaccinated against.

Thanks to global efforts, cases of polio have fallen by 99% since 1988 and the disease is now only endemic in three countries - Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria. Although a further 14 countries, including CAR, still carry the virus or are at high risk of importation, polio is now confined to a smaller geographic area than any at point in history.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Do you take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

If not why don't parents take a baby that is sick to get a vaccination(s)?

What the hell...? Do you honestly think that anyone here believes that vaccinations are meant to treat a person's illness rather than prevent that illness in the first place?

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/car...e-need-to-keep_1_b_2008032.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Carolyn Miller

Chief Executive of international health charity Merlin

Polio: Why we Need to Keep on Fighting

Posted: 24/10/2012 10:31

Like most people who have grown up in the UK, I used to think of polio as more or less eradicated. I do remember one boy in my school with a leg in a brace but he still played games. And that was a long while ago. In the Central African Republic (CAR) I found proof that polio is frighteningly common.

This is why Merlin is aiming to vaccinate nearly half a million children. In Africa's forgotten country, there are villages where 94% of children have never received a vaccination. The consequences are clear and poignant. In Bawi, a small village in the north west of the country, it is still possible to find children with twisted limbs. In the next village, there are another six cases of polio - young children's lives blighted by a disease which can easily be vaccinated against.

Thanks to global efforts, cases of polio have fallen by 99% since 1988 and the disease is now only endemic in three countries - Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria. Although a further 14 countries, including CAR, still carry the virus or are at high risk of importation, polio is now confined to a smaller geographic area than any at point in history.

You people don't get it. That's sad. Measles is not polio. Mumps is not polio.

Getting 8 vaccines in one day as an infant or a toddler is insane.


Veteran servicemen are leaving the military, giving up their career and pension security rather get the Anthrax vaccine. And the government and you people are saying the Anthrax vaccine is safe?

 

[jdc324]

For the same reason I put sandbags down before the flood not when the water is up to my chin.

Because I know what the "preventative" in preventative medicine means, how vaccines work and what they do not do.

Why would you suggest that?

What the hell...? Do you honestly think that anyone here believes that vaccinations are meant to treat a person's illness rather than prevent that illness in the first place?

I'm guessing here, but perhaps Clayton is referring to taking a child with illness A to be vaccinated against illness B? I.e. he might be worried that vaccinating a child against measles while the child has a cold might be harmful.

This is something the authorities have considered, and they have issued advice on.

E.g. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/should-not-vacc.htm "Some people who are sick at the time the shot is scheduled may be advised to wait until they recover before getting MMR vaccine." & "Children who are moderately or severely ill at the time the shot is scheduled should usually wait until they recover before getting MMRV vaccine. Children who are only mildly ill may usually get the vaccine."

 

[frenat]

Veteran servicemen are leaving the military, giving up their career and pension security rather get the Anthrax vaccine. And the government and you people are saying the Anthrax vaccine is safe?

Very few are doing that. The vast majority, myself included, have recieved it and multiple boosters and had no problems at all. Why must you try to oversensationalize everything?

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton I get totally you have no idea how vacciness and the immuniological system works.

You have no idea how much good vaccination has wrought and how much suffering has been stopped.

 

[jdc324]

You people don't get it. That's sad. Measles is not polio. Mumps is not polio.

Getting 8 vaccines in one day as an infant or a toddler is insane.


Veteran servicemen are leaving the military, giving up their career and pension security rather get the Anthrax vaccine. And the government and you people are saying the Anthrax vaccine is safe?

1. No, measles is not polio. It's still a serious disease though. Measles has a mortality rate of 1 in 2,500-5000 in developed countries. There were 87,000 notifications of measles between 1992 and 2008 in England & Wales, and 24 deaths. That’s one death for every ~3600 notifications. According to the CDC, approximately 30% of reported measles cases have one or more complications. Complications include diarrhea (8% of cases), otitis media (7%), pneumonia (6%), seizures (0.6-0.7%) and encephalitis (0.1%).

2. O RLY? Why is it insane? I assume you're not worried about multiple vaccines overwhelming the immune system: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full

3. We've already done anthrax vaccines and GWS. In the unlikely event that you wish to address it, you can find my response here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php...3&postcount=59

 

[Tomtomkent]

I am sure all of those who were killed or permanently disabled by diseases that can be prevented by vaccines are pleased to know Clayton feels they are sane, and that the diseases were not polio.


Now talking about people not getting things: name one doctor or medical proffessional who supports your claims about the effects of group vaccination Clayton.