The crucifixion of Jesus Christ

[pakeha]

@pakeha, #409

Don’t jump into conclusion, pakeha, that I would back away from my assertion about dating because of my non-answering Meadmaker’s responses immediately. I still believe that Ama’s revelation that Jesus was crucified on August 17 is true and correct. I am still preparing my answers to Meadmaker’s three responses. Which do you think is more logically correct: my findings or Meadmaker’s assertion?

Hi, PC.
You defend your calendar with great energy and it is clear you have put a lot of time into this project. Your calculations seem to be at odds with history though, as they were on the subject of the dating in the Roman provinces of the Iberian Penninsula.

Logically correct?
We're talking about history, not theory, PC, and so many events occur for so many reasons unrelated to logic.
In any case, I see no logical reason to imagine Jesus was crucified by the Romans outside of Passover.
Still, I'm intrigued by the direction of the convos here and as always, happy to learn more.

 

[gabeygoat]

I have mentioned that the spirit of Simon of Cyrene who helped Jesus carry the cross to Calvary is now in the physical body of a 63-year-old male person. He often calls me and calls the Philippines. So it is through him that I convey the questions I wish to ask Ama and Ka Apaz. I did not ask him to ask Ama and Ka Apaz about the non-fulfilment of Ama’s prophecy because I think it was just moved. He said that Ka Apaz is now too sickly so he just talk to Pilar Pilambato, a widow who is assisting Ka Apaz.

Wait, so you're getting your information from Ama through Ka Apaz through Pilar Pilambato through Simon of Cyrene through a 63 year old man over the telephone? That's not good, PC. Not good at all.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Hi, PC.
You defend your calendar with great energy and it is clear you have put a lot of time into this project. Your calculations seem to be at odds with history though, as they were on the subject of the dating in the Roman provinces of the Iberian Penninsula.

Logically correct?
We're talking about history, not theory, PC, and so many events occur for so many reasons unrelated to logic.
In any case, I see no logical reason to imagine Jesus was crucified by the Romans outside of Passover.
Still, I'm intrigued by the direction of the convos here and as always, happy to learn more.

@pakeha, #421

Is it not logically correct, pakeha, that Jesus should not be executed during Passover? What would happen if Jesus was executed during Passover? There would be “uproar among the people” (Matthew 26:3-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-2).

That is why His execution was after the pilgrims have left the city of Jerusalem. He was imprisoned at the fort (most likely at Antonia) inside the walled city from the 14th to the 27th of the first month. Pesach ended on the 21st. So while imprisoned, the Roman soldiers scourged Jesus at the pillar, that is why He received 5,455 lashes.

When the soldiers were to crucify Him, they sneaked through the east gate facing the Mount of Olives on the 28th to avoid a crowd. Ama said that they crossed Kidron and used the cross as a bridge. And since it was summer, there was still some water but not a torrent like during the rainy season.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Would the 63-year old person like to join our discussion here? Doing so might further the discussion. Why not invite him? You could tweak his interest by telling him of all the things you've learned here.

When someone dies, does the spirit immediately occupy another person? If so, how do you know who the new landlord is? Has this happened in the past? If so, has the spirit ever taken a body other than a Filipino? For example, have you ever been occupied by a spirit?

I ask all these questions because this discussion seems (to me, anyway) to have bogged down a bit. If you could bring new blood into the mix, we might get some new information to work with.

@SezMe, #416

I will ask this 63-year-old person when he calls again if he likes to join this discussion on the crucifixion of Jesus. He uses the local library when using the Internet.

There are other persons in the Holy Bible whose spirits are in new physical bodies. Some of them are:
1. The Samaritan woman is now in a 74-year-old woman;
2. Hestas, the malefactor who even insulted Jesus when they were crucified, is now in a woman’s body;
3. Mary Magdalene is now in a five-feet-high, 79-year-old woman;
4. The Roman soldier who was at the crucifixion of Jesus is now in a woman about thirty years of age.

These were revealed by the spirit of Ama. They have been called and are now listeners of Ama. Matthew 22:14 states: “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (This maybe similar to Matthew 20:16)

This maybe in fulfilment of what Jesus said in Matthew 16:28, to wit: “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (also in Luke 9:27)

I remember that those who have died who were listeners of Ama will be reborn, like Marcial Aguila who may be called Gonzalo, and Benigno Santos who may be called Pepito.

The spirit that is in Ka Apaz’s body now may be that of Reneliniyindi of Egypt. I ask pakeha about his inquiry of the 18-year-old Miraflor who died in 1923 or 1924 in Spain. This maybe the woman where the spirit lived prior to being transferred to Ka Apaz in 1939. So the transfer may not be immediate.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Wait, so you're getting your information from Ama through Ka Apaz through Pilar Pilambato through Simon of Cyrene through a 63 year old man over the telephone? That's not good, PC. Not good at all.

@gabeygoat, #422

We can talk to the spirit of Ama if we go to Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines. Since I am in Australia and do not go to the Philippines often, I ask this 63-year-old man in whom the spirit of Simon of Cyrene is in him now to ask Ka Apaz and Ama regarding some questions. He is from the US and often calls the Philippines. Lately, I asked him to verify for me a question on the crucifixion of Jesus.

Some years ago, I asked him to ask Ama if the Christmas letter that I sent with the picture drawn by Akiana Kramarik titled “Prince of Peace” is that of Jesus. The people there asked Ama when He came and He confirmed that it is. This confirmation was relayed to me by this man over the telephone.

Usually, the sessions are tape recorded so I can quote Ama verbatim.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

No. At least not according to the "conventional" history.


You have correctly shown that the dedication of the altar by Solomon was, in all probability, at Sukkoth. However, Sukkoth was celebrated before the dedication of the altar. Sukkoth continued to be celebrated after the dedication of the altar. Sukkoth was not a feast of dedication. When Solomon wanted to dedicate the altar, he did so during an existing festival.

The actual feast of dedication came about in this way. During the Maccabees' rebellion, Jerusalem was conquered by the rebels and the Temple had been profaned. A statue of Zeus was in there, and it wasn't generally used. The altar had been used by worshippers of the Greek gods, so the Jews decided it had been profaned. They destroyed it, and built a new one. By the time they were all ready, they decided they needed a new festival to rededicate their shiny new altar and refurbished temple. They decided to hold the festival on the 25th of Kislev.

That date had a couple of worthwhile reasons to recommend it. First, according to the Book of Maccabees, that was the anniversary of the date on which the altar had been desecrated by the Zeus worshippers. It was also somehow related to relighting the altar fire by Nehemiha. (To be honest, I don't know how. A quick skim of the Book of Nehemiah didn't find a reference.) At any rate, on 25 Kislev, the festival began, and lasted for eight days. Judah, the leader of the Maccabees, decreed that the rededication should be celebrated forever after on the 25 of Kislev.

The only connection with Sukkot is that many people believe that the war had prevented the rebels from properly celebrating Sukkot, so the eight days of the new festival were a belated celebration of Sukkot.

Interestingly enough, you have referred to the Feast of Dedication reference in the New Testament several times. You might be interested to know what word is actually used in the Greek. The word is,

ta engkainia

which does not mean "dedication". It means "renewal".

@Meadmaker, #419

What you are saying is “conventional” history. Why? There is no more Temple in Jerusalem where the Israelites can worship God. It has been replaced by the Muslim’s “Dome of the Rock” and the “Al Aqsa Mosque”.

We are talking here not of “conventional” history but what happened during the time when Jesus was crucified. Please tell me what these mean: John 10:22-23 – “And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.”

 

[fromdownunder]

What you are saying is “conventional” history. Why?

You don't even know what "conventional" means do you?

That says a lot as your capacity to understand what others are saying on this thread, and how you are utterly unable to refute facts, so you just make stuff up. And each and every post you make contains ideas that are becoming more and more off the planet and are just plain ******* crazy.

You should have given up after the Olympics finished.

Norm

 

[Meadmaker]

@Meadmaker, #419

What you are saying is “conventional” history. Why?

The stuff in all of the history books.

There is no more Temple in Jerusalem where the Israelites can worship God. It has been replaced by the Muslim’s “Dome of the Rock” and the “Al Aqsa Mosque”.

And.........this is kind of weird.

We are talking here not of “conventional” history but what happened during the time when Jesus was crucified. Please tell me what these mean: John 10:22-23 – “And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.”

It means - “And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.”

 

[abaddon]

@gabeygoat, #422

We can talk to the spirit of Ama if we go to Baliwag, Bulacan, Philippines. Since I am in Australia and do not go to the Philippines often, I ask this 63-year-old man in whom the spirit of Simon of Cyrene is in him now to ask Ka Apaz and Ama regarding some questions. He is from the US and often calls the Philippines. Lately, I asked him to verify for me a question on the crucifixion of Jesus.

Some years ago, I asked him to ask Ama if the Christmas letter that I sent with the picture drawn by Akiana Kramarik titled “Prince of Peace” is that of Jesus. The people there asked Ama when He came and He confirmed that it is. This confirmation was relayed to me by this man over the telephone.

Usually, the sessions are tape recorded so I can quote Ama verbatim.

Wait, wait, wait.

You are now claiming that these "revelations" from Ka Apaz, under the possession of the holy spirit or possibly jebus, are further relayed to you by means of an intermediary who is a 63 yo man under the possession of Simon of Cyrene?

It's possession all the way down.

 

[Elizabeth I]

I will ask this 63-year-old person when he calls again if he likes to join this discussion on the crucifixion of Jesus. He uses the local library when using the Internet.

...and now library employees all over the world are saying, "Hey, I know that guy."

 

[gabeygoat]

...and now library employees all over the world are saying, "Hey, I know that guy."

haha, for reals, I know I am!

 

[PeaceCrusader]

The stuff in all of the history books.


And.........this is kind of weird.


It means - “And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s porch.”

@Meadmaker, #428

World Book Dictionary defines “conventional” as “depending on conventions; customary; of the usual type or design, commonly used or seen."

From the book “The New Standard Jewish Encyclopaedia”, the entry for “Shavuoth” says “The Mishnah and Talmud call it atzeret, apparently meaning ‘termination,’ i.e. of the Passover period inasmuch as fifty days (Gk. Pentecost) had elapsed and been counted. After the destruction of the Temple, the tradition was emphasized that Shavuoth commemorates the giving of the law on Mt. Sinai on Sivan 6, and this aspect permeates the prayers of the festival.” There is not even a mention of the Maccabean revolt.

We know that when Jerusalem fell to the Romans during the first century AD, the Jews were dispersed in the Roman Empire. Then during the seventh century AD, the Muslims conquered Palestine, Syria, and Mesopotamia by Caliph Omar. Caliph Omar prohibited the Israelites from erecting new houses of worship. He built a structure situated on the traditional site of Mount Moriah. This structure was replaced by the Dome of the Rock by Caliph Abd al-Malik in 738 AD. So where is the Temple where Jews can worship? No more. So they changed Hanukkah to commemorate the Maccabean uprising during the second century BC. This was done after the Jewish calendar reformation of 358/359 AD.

Since the Israelites could not have both Hanukkah and Sukkoth on the 15th of Tishri, they moved Hanukkah to Kislev 25 (to compete with the Christian’s Christmas on December 25?).

John 10:22-23 only prove that the Feast of the Dedication was in winter when Jesus was crucified in 1 BC. It was in the purely lunar calendar. There was still the Temple that they dedicated and feasted. Jesus walked in the Temple in King Solomon’s porch. This happened on Shevat 15, 3760 or February 8, 1 BC, a winter date (http://aristean.org/wp116.htm ).

 

[Akhenaten]

@pakeha, #421

Is it not logically correct, pakeha, that Jesus should not be executed during Passover?

Since there's no evidence that such an execution ever took place there's no way logic can be used to determine what was the most likely date for it to have occurred.

You might as well ask whether it's logically correct that Jason and the Argonauts could beat King Arthur's knights in a game of soccer.

What would happen if Jesus was executed during Passover? There would be “uproar among the people” (Matthew 26:3-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-2).

Those verses have nothing whatsoever to do with the alleged Jesus being executed by the Romans.

Matthew 26:3-5

³Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

⁴And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.

⁵But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.​

Mark 14:1-2

¹After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

²But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.​

Luke 22:1-2

¹Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

²And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people​

That is why His execution was after the pilgrims have left the city of Jerusalem.

That is why nothing.

Your conclusion is non sequitur to your premises.

He was imprisoned at the fort (most likely at Antonia) inside the walled city from the 14th to the 27th of the first month.

You have no evidence for this assertion.

Pesach ended on the 21st. So while imprisoned, the Roman soldiers scourged Jesus at the pillar, that is why He received 5,455 lashes.

Not only is this patently ridiculous conclusion a non sequitur, the premise itself is nothing more than uninformed speculation.

When the soldiers were to crucify Him, they sneaked through the east gate facing the Mount of Olives on the 28th to avoid a crowd.

Roman legionnaires do not sneak around avoiding crowds.

Ama said that they crossed Kidron and used the cross as a bridge.

Akhenaten says they used the cross as the frame for a giant kite and they flew across singing Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines as they went.

And since it was summer, there was still some water but not a torrent like during the rainy season.

You have no idea where, when or how any of these events occurred.

 

[Akhenaten]

@SezMe, #416

I will ask this 63-year-old person when he calls again if he likes to join this discussion on the crucifixion of Jesus. He uses the local library when using the Internet.

I have to admit to being somewhat interested in the possibility that more than one person believes in this nonsense.

There are other persons in the Holy Bible whose spirits are in new physical bodies. Some of them are:

<snip>

These were revealed by the spirit of Ama. They have been called and are now listeners of Ama.

Are you sure you're not getting Haiti and the Philippines mixed up? This is all starting to sound very Voodoo-ish.

Matthew 22:14 states: “For many are called, but few are chosen.” (This maybe similar to Matthew 20:16)

No, Matthew 20:16 was written by Bob Dylan.

This maybe in fulfilment of what Jesus said in Matthew 16:28, to wit: “Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (also in Luke 9:27)

Wouldn't that be convenient? It's almost as if the whole stupid story about reincarnated spirits was made up to confirm the truth of the earlier fairytale in the minds of the bleevers.

In fact, it's exactly like that.

I remember that those who have died who were listeners of Ama will be reborn, like Marcial Aguila who may be called Gonzalo, and Benigno Santos who may be called Pepito.

Days of Future Past, eh?

Not at all surprisingly, I can see this whole story of yours as being some kind of comic book.

The spirit that is in Ka Apaz’s body now may be that of Reneliniyindi of Egypt.

The only thing that the Spook of KaPow™ and Reneliniyindi of Egypt have in common is that both are completely made up out of whole cloth.

I ask pakeha about his inquiry of the 18-year-old Miraflor who died in 1923 or 1924 in Spain. This maybe the woman where the spirit lived prior to being transferred to Ka Apaz in 1939. So the transfer may not be immediate.

No, I checked that story out myself and Miraflor was the reincarnation of a one-eyed cat that lived aboard Ferdinand Magellan's ship, Trinidad.

The spirit of Tsar Peter the Great, which now inhabits my alarm clock, assures me that this is logically true and correct.

 

[Astreja]

There are other persons in the Holy Bible whose spirits are in new physical bodies. Some of them are:
1. The Samaritan woman is now in a 74-year-old woman;
2. Hestas, the malefactor who even insulted Jesus when they were crucified, is now in a woman’s body;
3. Mary Magdalene is now in a five-feet-high, 79-year-old woman;
4. The Roman soldier who was at the crucifixion of Jesus is now in a woman about thirty years of age.

Aristeo, this is absolutely ridiculous. There is no evidence that reincarnation is real, and even if someone tells you to your face that they're the spirit of Mary Magdalene that does not mean that you should automatically believe them.

It also creates a wee little problem with the concepts of heaven and hell. Why would a god need such places at all if it just keeps recycling "souls" into new living quarters?

And what excuse would a god ever have for sending someone to hell if it could just plunk their soul into a fresh body and give them another chance to get it right?

Your sources are completely useless. You get your so-called "information" from a man who's pretending to be the long-dead Simon of Cyrene, and he gets his "information" from a senile old woman who's pretending to be the Holy Spirit and Jesus simultaneously.

No, Aristeo, your "facts" are mere hearsay from deluded individuals quoting other deluded individuals, and your calendar is rubbish that will fade from Internet history and never make it to the real world.

You also haven't explained this glaring contradiction, which I pointed out earlier:

Jesus was not crucified during Passover but after when the pilgrims have left the city.

Jesus was crucified sometime during Passover.

Note that these statements contradict each other. Therefore, at least one of these statements must be a lie. (Possibly there was no Jesus at all, and both of them are lies.)

It is only possible for one of these two statements to be true. Which one do you choose, Aristeo?

 

[Astreja]

No, I checked that story out myself and Miraflor was the reincarnation of a one-eyed cat that lived aboard Ferdinand Magellan's ship, Trinidad.

The spirit of Tsar Peter the Great, which now inhabits my alarm clock, assures me that this is logically true and correct.

My alarm clock is blinking its digital red eyes in agreement, and the spirit of the Master of Past and Present Cats and Kittens, which inhabits My cat Raistlin, purred loudly when I asked him if he knew Miraflor.

Better get your 63-year-old friend on the line, Aristeo -- The Aten and I have outflanked you.

 

[Akhenaten]

@gabeygoat, #422

<snip exactly what gabeygoat said much more economically>

Usually, the sessions are tape recorded so I can quote Ama verbatim.

No, the best you can do is quote KaPow verbatim. Ama doesn't exist.

 

[pakeha]

... So while imprisoned, the Roman soldiers scourged Jesus at the pillar, that is why He received 5,455 lashes.

When the soldiers were to crucify Him, they sneaked through the east gate facing the Mount of Olives on the 28th to avoid a crowd. Ama said that they crossed Kidron and used the cross as a bridge. And since it was summer, there was still some water but not a torrent like during the rainy season.

PC, logic and history don't need to be co-incident.
What IS insane, in my opinion, is to believe anyone would survive the scourging you've described.
The bridge-crossing scene you describe is so far from any reality I know I can't even react to it.
Why on Earth do you take this seriously, PC?

...

There are other persons in the Holy Bible whose spirits are in new physical bodies. Some of them are:
1. The Samaritan woman is now in a 74-year-old woman;
2. Hestas, the malefactor who even insulted Jesus when they were crucified, is now in a woman’s body;
3. Mary Magdalene is now in a five-feet-high, 79-year-old woman;
4. The Roman soldier who was at the crucifixion of Jesus is now in a woman about thirty years of age.

These were revealed by the spirit of Ama. ...
The spirit that is in Ka Apaz’s body now may be that of Reneliniyindi of Egypt. I ask pakeha about his inquiry of the 18-year-old Miraflor who died in 1923 or 1924 in Spain. This maybe the woman where the spirit lived prior to being transferred to Ka Apaz in 1939. So the transfer may not be immediate.

I'll need Miraflor's sirname to make any sort of search. Records from 23-24 aren't on-line as far as I know.
I'll also need the province where she might have lived as well.
I'm willing to do as much as I can, though judging from the various fictions related in these seances, especially concerning the fictitious Reneliniyendi, I have to wonder if Miraflor will be as real as Angelina Imden.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Aristeo, this is absolutely ridiculous. There is no evidence that reincarnation is real, and even if someone tells you to your face that they're the spirit of Mary Magdalene that does not mean that you should automatically believe them.

It also creates a wee little problem with the concepts of heaven and hell. Why would a god need such places at all if it just keeps recycling "souls" into new living quarters?

And what excuse would a god ever have for sending someone to hell if it could just plunk their soul into a fresh body and give them another chance to get it right?

Your sources are completely useless. You get your so-called "information" from a man who's pretending to be the long-dead Simon of Cyrene, and he gets his "information" from a senile old woman who's pretending to be the Holy Spirit and Jesus simultaneously.

No, Aristeo, your "facts" are mere hearsay from deluded individuals quoting other deluded individuals, and your calendar is rubbish that will fade from Internet history and never make it to the real world.

You also haven't explained this glaring contradiction, which I pointed out earlier:


Note that these statements contradict each other. Therefore, at least one of these statements must be a lie. (Possibly there was no Jesus at all, and both of them are lies.)

It is only possible for one of these two statements to be true. Which one do you choose, Aristeo?

@Astreja, #436

Passover Festival (Pesach) was from Av 14 to 21, 3760 (August 1 to 8, 1 BC). Jesus was crucified on Av 30, 3760 (August 17, 1 BC).

I am sorry if I got you confused by my saying “not ... during Passover” and “sometime during Passover”. What I meant was that Jesus was crucified not on Passover day and not during the festival, but near Passover. Not nearer than the seventh month of the lunar year. Not nearer than the Jewish month of Shevat. As I said in the beginning, Passover Festival was from Av 14 to 21, 3760. He was crucified after the pilgrims have left Jerusalem on Av 30, 3760.

Those biblical characters and where their spirits now reside were revealed by Ama. I am presenting them to you for your info. You may believe them or not.

Ama said that if you are good now, you better not be reincarnated because you may become evil. Why become evil? Because our environment is becoming more evil than becoming better. Have you noticed that?

He said that this will be the last incarnation to (almost all) people because God will reduce now the number of people in this world. So we better change now and be good. Otherwise, there will not be another chance to change. The next time that a person will be brought back to life is on Judgment Day.

 

[Craig B]

PC

You are so impervious to the criticisms and denunciations heaped upon you, and so patient in repeating and regurgitating such superhumanly bizarre ideas, that I have come to think of you as a sort of chatbot programmed by a lunatic or humorist. If that is not so, I most sincerely apologise, but I really can't shake off this idea.