How far will the excuses to shoot go?

[LTC8K6]

Naked student runs across campus. What are the possibilities? You could try google to find the answer. Anything could happen "...for example, one student was injured upon collision with a glass window during a naked run..."





Do they have a serious problem with naked students doing those sorts of things in the state of Alabama?

Nope, thus the quick reaction to a crazy one who had already attacked students...

 

[WildCat]

That's exactly the link I'm making. He was in a position of relative safety with backup on the way and he chose to go running after the suspect creating the situation where he was forced to shoot the suspect or risk the suspect gaining control of the gun.

He was only in a position of safety until he went out to investigate a naked man pounding on the cop shop window.

At that point the cop didn't now whether the naked guy was a perp or a victim in dire danger and in need of immediate assistance.

 

[Nessie]

I'll ignore your little jab and take you seriously.

Keep in mind that each state can have slightly different laws about this.

In many states, you can use deadly force to respond to a threat of GBH, great bodily harm. You don't have to fear for your life, just GBH.

If you are being beaten up with fists, you can shoot/stab your attacker. You need not respond "in kind". You need only have a reasonable fear of GBH.

You are not required to wait until your attacker makes progress on you, either. You need only reasonably fear that GBH was about to happen to you.

To analyze any particular incident, you would need to look at the laws of the state where it occurred.

What you get away with clean in Florida, you might go to jail for in New York, for example.

Police officers generally get a wide latitude when they shoot someone. In this case, with what I have already heard, I think it's very unlikely that a jury would vote to convict the officer anyway.

It is not a jab and you have confirmed what I thought. Scaring an American is enough to get yourself killed.

I have asked this before but got no reply. How would you feel if an American was shot dead because he gave a Scotsman a fright and Scots law took no action?

 

[WildCat]

Naked student runs across campus. What are the possibilities?

If you're contending that the cop should have known the the naked guy (how would he have known it was a student btw?) was harmless then you can't fault the cop for going outside and confronting a dangerous individual like you did a few minutes ago.

So which claim are you going with? The cop thought he was dangerous, or the cop thought he was harmless?

 

[Nessie]

That you value your own life so little doesn't mean others don't value theirs.

Strawman. Indeed the evidence is that I value my and others lives more so than that officer. I deal with incidents such as a naked man having an episode by resolving it at the lowest possible level, whereas he went straight in with a gun.

 

[LTC8K6]

It is not a jab and you have confirmed what I thought. Scaring an American is enough to get yourself killed.

I have asked this before but got no reply. How would you feel if an American was shot dead because he gave a Scotsman a fright and Scots law took no action?

You are not playing fair, imo, so I cannot answer your question.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It is not a jab and you have confirmed what I thought. Scaring an American is enough to get yourself killed.

I have asked this before but got no reply. How would you feel if an American was shot dead because he gave a Scotsman a fright and Scots law took no action?

It would depend in the circumstances of the case. Not everybody sees everything in terms of nationality. Or gives a damn what would have happened differently if only it had happened in Scotland, or Ethiopia, or the magical land of Narnia.

 

[LTC8K6]

Strawman. Indeed the evidence is that I value my and others lives more so than that officer. I deal with incidents such as a naked man having an episode by resolving it at the lowest possible level, whereas he went straight in with a gun.

Having an episode?

Lowest possible level?

This is just more fantasy, imo.

Besides, the officer hasn't "gotten away" with anything. The incident is being thoroughly investigated and will be put before a grand jury.

The law is being adhered to, just as it was and is, in Florida

 

[drewid]

Strawman. Indeed the evidence is that I value my and others lives more so than that officer. I deal with incidents such as a naked man having an episode by resolving it at the lowest possible level, whereas he went straight in with a gun.

You have to remember the guy was a baddie. There are good guys and bad guys and nothing in between.

 

[WildCat]

It is not a jab and you have confirmed what I thought. Scaring an American is enough to get yourself killed.

No, causing a reasonable person to think you are about to break into his home or do him great bodily harm is enough to get you killed in most parts of the USA.

Is it common in Scotland for drunks to ring the bell and pound on the back doors of total strangers at 4:30 AM looking for a telephone? Because you just don't do that sort of thing here.

I have asked this before but got no reply. How would you feel if an American was shot dead because he gave a Scotsman a fright and Scots law took no action?

I would feel the exact same in identical circumstances. Why should nationality matter?

 

[Nessie]

Not as much as you.

I'm wondering why you find it neccessary to call the officer a coward though. Is that based on experience as well?

What experience do you have? Have you ever been confronted with an angry man?

He is a coward because he took a gun to deal with a naked man experiencing some sort of episode, we think drug related, but it could also be mental health. That man needed help, but instead a police officer killed him as he was scared he might get hurt or lose his gun.

If one of my guys killed a naked man who was behaving erratically and in a threatening manner I would personally arrest him or her for murder. That is because getting a bit of a kicking whilst affecting the arrest of a naked man in return for a life saved is considered a very good return.

We are not so afraid of being hurt, or losing our batons or CS. Which police officer do you want? One who bravely tackles such a man, or one who hides behind a gun and shoots?

We already know from the justifications put forward so far by Americans, being scared is enough to kill. That to me is cowardly.

What would you call it?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Again, really focused on nationality. Grinding an ax?

 

[LTC8K6]

What experience do you have? Have you ever been confronted with an angry man?

He is a coward because he took a gun to deal with a naked man experiencing some sort of episode, we think drug related, but it could also be mental health. That man needed help, but instead a police officer killed him as he was scared he might get hurt or lose his gun.

If one of my guys killed a naked man who was behaving erratically and in a threatening manner I would personally arrest him or her for murder. That is because getting a bit of a kicking whilst affecting the arrest of a naked man in return for a life saved is considered a very good return.

We are not so afraid of being hurt, or losing our batons or CS. Which police officer do you want? One who bravely tackles such a man, or one who hides behind a gun and shoots?

We already know from the justifications put forward so far by Americans, being scared is enough to kill. That to me is cowardly.

What would you call it?

I think you just don't like the fact that we have guns in America, and you are using this case to express yourself over that, and that this is a common behavior for you.

Just like some posters don't like the fact that you don't have guns in the UK, and they use certain cases to express ridicule over that fact.

Overall, I don't think you care about the particulars, as long as you can pontificate over how bad it is in America.

 

[Bob001]

This is why the hashishim and the guys who HAD to be Mozambiqued to die were so dangerous. And berserkers needed no drugs (except internally generated ones we all have available) to not feel damage. This is not rocket science, it is known, published, studied and what I like to call: REAL.

It doesn't do much for your case to compare a disturbed, 135-pound 18-year-old to gangs of medieval Arab paid assassins, who, apparently, did NOT act under the influence of drugs:

....Many scholars have argued, and demonstrated convincingly, that the attribution of the epithet "hashish eaters" or "hashish takers" is a misnomer derived from enemies of the Isma'ilis and was never used by Muslim chroniclers or sources. It was therefore used in a pejorative sense of "enemies" or "disreputable people". ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

If a properly wielded baton didn't work, that might be the time to resort to a gun.

 

[Sideroxylon]

It is not just the police who shoot for lame reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

A Japanese student dressed as John Travolta for a Halloween party goes to the wrong house and is shot dead by someone who like that cop has panicked at the slightest of reasons and reached for their gun.

That is just so screwed up from start to finish.

 

[Nessie]

If you're contending that the cop should have known the the naked guy (how would he have known it was a student btw?) was harmless then you can't fault the cop for going outside and confronting a dangerous individual like you did a few minutes ago.

So which claim are you going with? The cop thought he was dangerous, or the cop thought he was harmless?

Somewhere in between. He was not harmless, he was in distress and needed help and posed a risk, but I do not think for one moment he posed such a risk that the only option was to go straight to lethal force.

 

[Segnosaur]

If a properly wielded baton didn't work, that might be the time to resort to a gun.

The problem with that argument is that a baton is a close-range weapon. If the individual is close enough such that a baton was an option, the officer would not have had the time to draw a gun, and probably would not be in a good position to shoot.

 

[Nessie]

Having an episode?

Lowest possible level?

This is just more fantasy, imo.

Besides, the officer hasn't "gotten away" with anything. The incident is being thoroughly investigated and will be put before a grand jury.

The law is being adhered to, just as it was and is, in Florida

What experience do you have in dealing with junkies, drunks and people with mental health?

The issue here is that the University has justified what happened in a press release saying because the officer was confronted by a naked man on something, that is enough to kill.

My bollock naked man with mental health issues who had smashed up his house and was screaming murder to all was dealt with by patience where by ever time he came near the door of the room he was in , I shut it and in between time I spoke to him. It took an hour or so, but he walked out that room and no one was hurt.

 

[LTC8K6]

That is just so screwed up from start to finish.

Yes.

It's also screwed up to use that incident as if it happens all the time, or to compare it to a police officer dealing with a suspect.

 

[LTC8K6]

What experience do you have in dealing with junkies, drunks and people with mental health?

The issue here is that the University has justified what happened in a press release saying because the officer was confronted by a naked man on something, that is enough to kill.

My bollock naked man with mental health issues who had smashed up his house and was screaming murder to all was dealt with by patience where by ever time he came near the door of the room he was in , I shut it and in between time I spoke to him. It took an hour or so, but he walked out that room and no one was hurt.

Too bad you weren't there to save Gil Collar...