How far will the excuses to shoot go?

[LTC8K6]

He had a position of safety inside the campus police headquarters. He left that position with his gun drawn and without backup.

I thought I read that backup arrived almost immediately after the shooting. Was that wrong?

I don't recall anything about backup.

It was his duty to protect the rest of the students from the crazed guy, imo.

His duty to deal with the guy immediately, imo.

The guy could run away and do who knows what.

He cannot wait and possibly have another attack on a student, imo.

 

[Dan O.]

I'm quite sure I read the story correctly. Do you think you're posting in the George Zimmereman thread or something?

That's exactly the link I'm making. He was in a position of relative safety with backup on the way and he chose to go running after the suspect creating the situation where he was forced to shoot the suspect or risk the suspect gaining control of the gun.

Anyone that makes that choice should never be permitted to carry a gun.

 

[LTC8K6]

Great. So it was a fully trained, state-certified police officer who killed a disturbed unarmed student? That makes it worse.
http://www.southalabama.edu/police/generalinfo.html
http://www.fox10tv.com/dpp/news/local_news/mobile_county/officers-required-480-hours-of-training
http://www.apostc.state.al.us/Portals/0/APOSTC Rulebook Chapter 4.pdf

He did exactly what he should have done, imo.

I find no fault with the officer, given the info that I currently have about the incident.

It may be that reporting has been inaccurate, though. It tends to be these days.

 

[LTC8K6]

That's exactly the link I'm making. He was in a position of relative safety with backup on the way and he chose to go running after the suspect creating the situation where he was forced to shoot the suspect or risk the suspect gaining control of the gun.

Anyone that makes that choice should never be permitted to carry a gun.

A police officer has a duty that Zimmerman does not.

I would not compare the two incidents.

 

[Segnosaur]

He could have run away, I suppose, and left the crazy man free to attack yet another person that night.

Actually I thought the officer did try running away, considering the original article stated that he was 'chased'.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

backup

He had a position of safety inside the campus police headquarters. He left that position with his gun drawn and without backup.

I thought I read that backup arrived almost immediately after the shooting. Was that wrong?

"Beasley, the Collar family's attorney, said another police employee was at the station with the officer. The officer called for backup but went outside before it arrived.

'They called for backup, but he goes out by himself without backup. Backup came almost immediately after the shooting. I understand one officer came,' he said. Still, Beasley questioned why the officer called for support when facing an unarmed student." link.

 

[LTC8K6]

Interesting incident to pick to compare with the Trayvon Martin case, with a black cop shooting an unarmed white teen in this case...

 

[LTC8K6]

"Beasley, the Collar family's attorney, said another police employee was at the station with the officer. The officer called for backup but went outside before it arrived.

'They called for backup, but he goes out by himself without backup. Backup came almost immediately after the shooting. I understand one officer came,' he said. Still, Beasley questioned why the officer called for support when facing an unarmed student." link.

What if Collar runs away while Austin waits for backup?

What are the possibilities then?

Collar might do anything in that state, from killing the next student he comes across, to trying to fly off the nearest building...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

What if Collar runs away while Austin waits for backup?

What are the possibilities then?

Collar might do anything in that state, from killing the next student he comes across, to trying to fly off the nearest building...

When Collar banged on the door, how did Austin respond?

 

[LTC8K6]

When Collar banged on the door, how did Austin respond?

He confronted him as he should have.

We don't know exactly what happened, though.

Collar may have been yelling threats about killing people, for example, while banging on the door/window.

 

[Segnosaur]

He had a position of safety inside the campus police headquarters. He left that position with his gun drawn and without backup.

First of all, it would have been his duty to deal with any 'naked man' running around campus. So hiding within the headquarters would have been a case of shunning his duty.

So, there were 2 possibilities when he left headquarters... either the person is cooperative (in which case his orders, with the gun used as a show of force would have been followed, i.e. no shooting) and he would not have had to shoot the person. Or, the person is not cooperative, in which case the person would be a threat not only to the officer, but other people, and he would have needed some way to defend himself from harm. Either way, the firearm is justified.

As for the backup... he was at headquarters. If there were not other officers there at the time (probably reasonable, if its a small department), then I'm not sure how he would have really known that "backup was on the way".

About the only question is why he didn't have a tazer or other items on him when he was at the headquarters. Perhaps it was department policy to only carry those things when on patrol. Or maybe that was a mistake he made. (Although one of the other articles has the investigating sheriff making a statement about how he didn't think non-lethal force would have been effective in the situation.)

 

[LTC8K6]

Perhaps Collar banged on the door/window and said things that alarmed Austin, and then left the area of the door/window, causing Austin to rush out after him in a hurry.

 

[Bob001]

....About the only question is why he didn't have a tazer or other items on him when he was at the headquarters.....

I can understand why a small police department wouldn't issue an expensive taser to every officer. But it's hard to believe that he couldn't have grabbed a baton as he stepped out of the station, and that a police officer with a baton couldn't have taken down a 5'7" 135-pound drunk or druggie. I would think any responsible police officer would insist on having options somewhere between "hey, stop!" and "bang, bang."
http://nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/continuum.htm

 

[tyr_13]

People who dismiss the threat posed by the student because he's 'only' 135lbs and naked have an overly optimistic sense of safety. Add to this 'completely irrational' and 'a muscly highly trained martial artist', and the claim of 'harmless' or even 'not harmful enough' becomes laughable.

If only we did live in a reality where only large men or men with weapons were dangerous or could kill. Then you'd only have to be afraid of people like me and feel safe around all those harmless small people.

 

[Dan O.]

What if Collar runs away while Austin waits for backup?

What are the possibilities then?

Naked student runs across campus. What are the possibilities? You could try google to find the answer. Anything could happen "...for example, one student was injured upon collision with a glass window during a naked run..."

Collar might do anything in that state, from killing the next student he comes across, to trying to fly off the nearest building...

Do they have a serious problem with naked students doing those sorts of things in the state of Alabama?

 

[Segnosaur]

I can understand why a small police department wouldn't issue an expensive taser to every officer. But it's hard to believe that he couldn't have grabbed a baton as he stepped out of the station, and that a police officer with a baton couldn't have taken down a 5'7" 135-pound drunk or druggie.http://nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/continuum.htm

There are 2 things to keep in mind though...

While having a baton would have given the officer an advantage, its still a close-proximity weapon, and a fight can be... messy. There's no guarantee that the officer would have been able to fend him off without injury.

And prior to the confrontation the officer might not have had any idea what he was walking into. Was it just one drunk idiot? Or were there others out there (which cuts down the value of a baton)? I'm assuming the police are trained to plan for the worst possible scenarios.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Hit the femoral artery and that's all she wrote.

First off, I said, can be fatal, but isn't necessarily. And second, lots of people survive femoral artery punctures as long as pressure is applied promptly.

You have a better chance than a bullet in the heart or aorta.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm quite sure I read the story correctly. Do you think you're posting in the George Zimmereman thread or something?

This thread mirrors the GZ thread and it isn't just the Trayvon side.

 

[fuelair]

I can understand why a small police department wouldn't issue an expensive taser to every officer. But it's hard to believe that he couldn't have grabbed a baton as he stepped out of the station, and that a police officer with a baton couldn't have taken down a 5'7" 135-pound drunk or druggie. I would think any responsible police officer would insist on having options somewhere between "hey, stop!" and "bang, bang."
http://nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/continuum.htm

Why - oh-why do we have to keep explaining this stuff over and over. For a baton, brass knuckles, a blackjack etc. to work, the recipient must be capable of feeling pain strongly. Unless the officer could hit hard enough to break major support bones immediately, the "victim" could well have taken the baton and fed it to the officer long before he fellt the damage of the baton blows. This is why the hashishim and the guys who HAD to be Mozambiqued to die were so dangerous. And berserkers needed no drugs (except internally generated ones we all have available) to not feel damage. This is not rocket science, it is known, published, studied and what I like to call: REAL.

 

[WildCat]

Perhaps not coming out of the station until he was better equipped and had called for backup would have been a better course of action. As I implied in an earlier comment, drunk, naked students are not very uncommon at college campuses on weekends.

And if that drunk naked man had been pounding on the station window because he was being chased by someone trying to kill him?

The cop had to go out and investigate.