Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Robert Prey]

Ok.

Could you explain the link between autism & vaccines?

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

 

[Border Reiver]

No. You pick one.

Pakhea did right here at post #2298. The choice is India.

We await your response.

 

[Tomblvd]

Can I pick one?

Go for it.

I can't handle the existential emptiness anymore....

 

[Tomblvd]

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

If vaccines cause autism, how do non-vaccinated get it?

 

[Robert Prey]

No, you don't get off that easily. You've been saying that for pages now and you haven't answered a single question when it's posed. You are being very dishonest.



Oh really? Then how do you even know about the Cutter Incident if "modern medicine" lies? Science and medicine are fallible. Are you trying to tell us that whatever it is you do isn't? Please share.

Este

The fallible nature of Modern Medicine and of human beings in general is good reason when considering whether to vaccinate, to Think Twice.

 

[dafydd]

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

Provide peer reviewed evidence of that and we will have a go. Crackpot websites do not count.

 

[zooterkin]

Provide peer reviewed evidence of that and we will have a go.

Seems unlikely, given this.

No studies have compared the incidence of autism in vaccinated, unvaccinated, or alternatively vaccinated children (i.e., schedules that spread out vaccines, avoid combination vaccines, or include only select vaccines). These studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among these 3 groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines.

 

[jdc324]

Go for it.

I can't handle the existential emptiness anymore....

OK, I'll go with India.

Robert, can you tell us why your magical "natural herd immunity" eradicated polio from some countries but not from India?

 

[Robert Prey]

India. Dodge noted.

Re: India:

“In 2011, there were an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received.”


"...Dr. Neetu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Puliyel of St. Stephens Hospital created the report after analyzing data from India’s 10-year-old National Polio Surveillance Project, which is available online. Their findings, which were published in the Indian Journal of medical Ethics, revealed that rates of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) have increased 1200% since the oral polio vaccine was introduced to India a decade ago."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz27gL27Xx4

Some trade-off, eh? What else would you like to know about India?

 

[Robrob]

Re: India:

“In 2011, there were an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received.”


"...Dr. Neetu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Puliyel of St. Stephens Hospital created the report after analyzing data from India’s 10-year-old National Polio Surveillance Project, which is available online. Their findings, which were published in the Indian Journal of medical Ethics, revealed that rates of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) have increased 1200% since the oral polio vaccine was introduced to India a decade ago."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz27gL27Xx4

Some trade-off, eh? What else would you like to know about India?

From your own cited report:

India has been polio-free for a year

It's almost as if you aren't really trying.

 

[dafydd]

Re: India:

“In 2011, there were an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received.”


"...Dr. Neetu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Puliyel of St. Stephens Hospital created the report after analyzing data from India’s 10-year-old National Polio Surveillance Project, which is available online. Their findings, which were published in the Indian Journal of medical Ethics, revealed that rates of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) have increased 1200% since the oral polio vaccine was introduced to India a decade ago."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz27gL27Xx4

Some trade-off, eh? What else would you like to know about India?

The proviso was no crackpot websites. Are there any peer reviewed studies of this?

Here is another serious new story from that site

''Hong Kong tycoon Cecil Chao offers $65M to wed lesbian daughter''

 

[jdc324]

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

I wasn't aware there was a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated.

I know what the results look like for MMR... But they don't support the claims of anti-vaxxers.

After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder. [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134]

1010 cases (78.1%) had MMR vaccination recorded before diagnosis, compared with 3671 controls (82.1%) before the age at which their matched case was diagnosed. After adjustment for age at joining the database, the odds ratio for association between MMR and pervasive developmental disorder was 0.86 (95% CI 0.68-1.09). [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=15364187]

For vaccination generally, I can't find any good evidence regarding incidence of autism in those vaccinated vs those unvaccinated. Probably because these studies would be difficult to perform because of the likely differences among the groups in health care seeking behavior and the ethics of experimentally studying children who have not received vaccines. If you want some poor evidence, there was an internet survey showing that in some age groups the fraction of unvaccinated autistic kids is about 2%. The current prevalence estimate for the U.S. and the U.K. is about 1%. http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/20...ws-high-autism-rate-in-unvaccinated-children/ Hope that helps.

 

[jdc324]

Re: India:

“In 2011, there were an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received.”


"...Dr. Neetu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Puliyel of St. Stephens Hospital created the report after analyzing data from India’s 10-year-old National Polio Surveillance Project, which is available online. Their findings, which were published in the Indian Journal of medical Ethics, revealed that rates of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) have increased 1200% since the oral polio vaccine was introduced to India a decade ago."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz27gL27Xx4

Some trade-off, eh? What else would you like to know about India?

That's interesting.

So is this:

Number of cases registered as AFP is showing significant increase from 8,500 cases in 2003 to over 40,000 cases per year starting from 2007 onwards, regardless of the number of actual confirmed polio cases [6]. This rise in AFP cases is attributed to significant improvements in the quality of the surveillance system [8].

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3331818/

 

[Estellea]

No. You pick one.

So what are you twelve?

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

There is zero evidence of that. But I'm aflutter over what you think is evidence and will be providing shortly.

The fallible nature of Modern Medicine and of human beings in general is good reason when considering whether to vaccinate, to Think Twice.

Clay has Chevys, you have Dodges. What an odd pattern.

Este

 

[pakeha]

...

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz27gL27Xx4

Some trade-off, eh? What else would you like to know about India?

A trade-off?
Hardly, Robert.

Check out the causes of this illness:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaccid_paralysis

I find it strange you didn't link directly to the study, but rather to a news outlet.
The actual study shows the figures only cover the areas included in the polio vaccine programme.

Would you put more complete studies on the table, please?

 

[Estellea]

Re: India:

“In 2011, there were an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [in India]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received.”


"...Dr. Neetu Vashisht and Dr. Jacob Puliyel of St. Stephens Hospital created the report after analyzing data from India’s 10-year-old National Polio Surveillance Project, which is available online. Their findings, which were published in the Indian Journal of medical Ethics, revealed that rates of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) have increased 1200% since the oral polio vaccine was introduced to India a decade ago."

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz27gL27Xx4

Some trade-off, eh? What else would you like to know about India?

How about the accurate stats? What you posted is rubbish. Why don't you try a real source? http://www.npspindia.org/

Este

 

[Mudcat]

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

Loaded question detected.


People who don't get vaccinated might not get diagnosed for autism for the same reasons they also don't get vaccinated.

Also since more people who don't get vaccinated get sick and die before its possible to get diagnosed with autism, that could also skew the statistics.

 

[Tomtomkent]

No. But can you explain the link of a very much smaller incidence of autism amongst the non-vaccinated?

Yes. It's a lie. The studies already here have already shown there is no difference in incident rate in the vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Care to highlight the eerrors in those studies?

 

[Tomtomkent]

The fallible nature of Modern Medicine and of human beings in general is good reason when considering whether to vaccinate, to Think Twice.

Wait a second. The FALLIBLE NATURE OF MODERN MEDICINE?


So what counts as good evidnence to you?

(And by the way, it is nice to know you can't trust any of your claimed medical evidence when thinking about JFK any more....)

 

[000063]

One question at a time, please.

One question at a time, please.

Keep running.

The unfortunate victims of vaccine disasters such at The Cutter Incident
bear witness to the fact that Modern Medicine often makes mistakes and often lies about vaccine safety.

So an accident that occurred almost sixty years ago - probably before you were born - proves malice and concealment in current vaccines.

The funny thing about any conspiracy theory like this is that they often rely on things that are openly known to prove that other things are concealed. And usually by the same people.

I don't address generalized questions about "countries". But name one.

Which is why you were dodging questions about India, right?

The fallible nature of Modern Medicine and of human beings in general is good reason when considering whether to vaccinate, to Think Twice.

That's your only advice?