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Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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Clayton,

I LOVE your avatar and your laughing dogs- by making me feel degraded and stupid, they save me my weekly $150 visit to my dominatrix! Keep them coming- I find facts so boring in comparison!

But because I AM stupid, I must ask: in my own humble world, the polio vaccines are either an attenuated virus or a killed virus. Is that different in your world? Because you were calling out another poster by stating the vaccine is not a virus. First the poster clearly was saying the vaccine protected him against virulent polio virus (which is absolutely true). Second, even if we accept your own interpretation of his posts, the vaccine in this case is, in fact, a virus. So he was right no matter how you interpret his posts.
 
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Straw Man said:
Yes, I saw the question.

How do viruses not cause diseases exactly?
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I think Clayton was trying to say that the vaccine does not cause disease, rather than the virus not causing disease. But first of all, the attenuated virus does cause a very mild infection that establishes immunity, so Clayton is wrong again on the science of vaccination and disease. And second, here I am trying to explain one of Clayton's posts, which worries me...
 
Giordano said:
I think Clayton was trying to say that the vaccine does not cause disease, rather than the virus not causing disease. But first of all, the attenuated virus does cause a very mild infection that establishes immunity, so Clayton is wrong again on the science of vaccination and disease.
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I've got a handle on how a vaccine works....and you're right.

Giordano said:
And second, here I am trying to explain one of Clayton's posts, which worries me...
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There's much more fun in the untranslated version

;)
 
I finally figured out the biggest difference between Clayton and me. It's not training and education per se, although I am a biologist and I believe Clayton works/worked with computers. It's not intelligence- I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. The biggest difference:

Clayton's avatar is, "I see dumb people."

If I ever chose my own avatar, I would choose, "I see smart people!" Because I do see smart people all around me: at work, at this forum, at universities, and in the public health and research arms of the city, state, national, and international governments and organizations. Not just the smart people who are alive today, but hundreds of years of smart people who have worked to save other people's lives!

I am not as smart as most of these folks. So perhaps my avatar should even be, "I see smarter people!" But I am smart enough to listen to what they know and to learn from them! So I see smart people, and I use it as an opportunity! I see smart people and I exploit it! I talk to them, and keep an open mind to what they say. I don't form an opinion first, then stick my fingers in my ears and cover my eyes if a smart person tells me something different.

No, I don't accept everything an "expert" tells me! I listen, and compare, and look to see if the data supports the smart person's conclusions. In science, my job is to question everything, especially my own conclusions. But the best situation in the world is to be surrounded by people who are smarter than you are- if you are willing to use it!

So Clayton, if you only "see dumb people" you should get out and around more. You may be in an unusually stupid environment, which could be holding you back. Being the smartest person in the room is a dead end. Maybe you need to surround yourself with more smart people, and listen to them with an open mind! In my humble opinion, this forum is filled with just those smart people. Exploit their knowledge!
 
Giordano said:
I think Clayton was trying to say that the vaccine does not cause disease, rather than the virus not causing disease. But first of all, the attenuated virus does cause a very mild infection that establishes immunity, so Clayton is wrong again on the science of vaccination and disease. And second, here I am trying to explain one of Clayton's posts, which worries me...
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Yeah yeah.

The point was How did he know the vaccine worked?


Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
Erm, do you actually understand what a vaccine is?
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It is not the virus that causes the disease.
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Let's try this again.

Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
But it still stopped me catching polio.
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Did it? Did the vaccine really work? What was the date the polio virus, not the vaccine, entered your body?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Yeah yeah.

The point was How did he know the vaccine worked?
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Let's skip to the big picture here. How do we know that the vaccine worked?

How many young folks get Polio today?

When was the last Polio epidemic?

Why is Polio in the running to be the next nasty disease to be eradicated from the face of the Earth?

Is it witchcraft or voodoo, or is it vaccination?

An answer would be nice, Clayton.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Did the vaccine really work? What was the date the polio virus, not the vaccine, entered your body?
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You keep asking that question as if it matters.

Compare polio infection rates before the introduction of the vaccine to infection rates after the introduction of the vaccine.

Honestly, how do you not know these things? :confused:
 
This latest tangent is simply bizarre.

What, pray tell, made the polio virus stop entering people's bodies? And why was this event simultaneous with polio vaccination?
 
Clayton,

It worked- he never was at risk after he was vaccinated, whereas others, not vaccinated, were at risk and some caught polio. A valuable tradeoff!
 
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