Democrats say dumb things too

[LarianLeQuella]

Before I am accused of only focusing on the (many, many) dumb things Republicans say, here is a gem from a Democrat:

"Orrin Hatch is not a bad guy. But he is an old guy."

Campaigning in Southern Utah, Howell not only didn't back down from this statement, he doubled down on it.

He told ABC 4 News,

“Orrin Hatch is old enough to be my father and I don't want my father running the United States Senate Finance Committee."

But the most explosive part of Howell's fundraising letter may be when he says that Hatch could,

"die before his term is through."

While not especially untrue, I would say it's a dumb thing to say.

 

[Piscivore]

Why is it dumb? A 78 year old has no business in government. We need an upper age limit on office holders; this isn't their world anymore. Some of these guys think we're still embroiled in the Cold War.

Irony time:
"In 1976 in his first run for public office, [Hatch] was elected to the United States Senate, defeating Democrat Frank Moss, a three-term incumbent. Among other issues, Hatch criticized Moss's 18-year tenure in the Senate, saying "What do you call a Senator who’s served in office for 18 years? You call him home." "

 

[TragicMonkey]

One has to find tactful ways to suggest old people are past it.

Mr Tebbs: Past it? Past it? Would you say I'm past it, Mr Humphries?
Mr Humphries: Certainly not! There is minutes left in you!

 

[LarianLeQuella]

Why is it dumb?

Because it may be seen as petty, desperate, and just plain mean (i.e. age-discrimination type of statement)? It just didn't sit well with me as something to put into a campaign fundraising letter. It has very little to do with policy (well, aside form being dead and not being able to execute policy).

 

[tyr_13]

Umm, what? While I think that some 78 year olds have lost the capacities needed to do the job well, I don't think all have. There is a good way to tell, and that should come out in the election. That is to say the argument should be, 'so and so doesn't have the capacity to do the job well,' and not, 'he's old so he must not be able to do the job well.'

I've known some seriously bright 80+ year olds.

 

[theprestige]

Before I am accused of only focusing on the (many, many) dumb things Republicans say, here is a gem from a Democrat:




While not especially untrue, I would say it's a dumb thing to say.

Cool story, bro.

The thing is, I don't think you've found anything dumb that anybody's said, so far. Romney's numbers on middle-income actually make sense in context.

Marshall took a policy position that has a reasonably scientific basis, and is guilty of nothing more dumb than also being a theist.

And Howell here has a valid point: Hatch is old. It's probably a factor worth considering, even if you end up not giving it much weight in your final decision.

Anyway, why do you think it's dumb? Do you plan on actually considering what was said, whether it has merit, and how it affects your own views on the issue(s) in question?

Or is this the end of this thread, and we should just wait for the next poorly-sourced and/or ill-considered "politicians say dumb things" thread?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

A 78 year old has no business in government. We need an upper age limit on office holders;

I disagree. That should be something for the voters to decide.

And I hope you were kidding about this part:

this isn't their world anymore.

You'd really like to kick 78+ year olds off the world? (Or sequester them into warehouses so they can't interfere with a world that is no longer theirs?)

What is their world?

 

[Piscivore]

I disagree. That should be something for the voters to decide.

And I hope you were kidding about this part:



You'd really like to kick 78+ year olds off the world? (Or sequester them into warehouses so they can't interfere with a world that is no longer theirs?)

What is their world?

For my uncle, who is over seventy, it is the late sixties- when minorities knew their place and beating up queers while on leave was just good American fun.

For my dad, it's a combination of an idealized version of his farm-boy childhood combined with Mayberry and Perry Mason.

 

[Tricky]

Oh yes, there are going to be a load of tu quoques now, and some people have already trotted out the Obama comment about "clinging to their guns and religion". Yes, a gaffe to be sure, but this article explains why they gaffes are not of similar import.

 

[timhau]

Oh yes, there are going to be a load of tu quoques now, and some people have already trotted out the Obama comment about "clinging to their guns and religion".

Driving home today, I heard some Republican strategist say that the "clinging to their guns and religion" comment was much worse than anything Romney has said, because Romney only alienated people who wouldn't vote for him anyway, but Obama actually insulted people whose votes he needed.

Given that Obama won the 2008 election with some margin to spare, I found that comment really weird.

 

[eeyore1954]

Oh yes, there are going to be a load of tu quoques now, and some people have already trotted out the Obama comment about "clinging to their guns and religion". Yes, a gaffe to be sure, but this article explains why they gaffes are not of similar import.

Politicians say stupid things because unlike the rest of us someone is always recording what they say.
The article did not explain to me why they not of similar import aside from the unbiased "point" that Obama was factual in his comment.

 

[theprestige]

the article did not explain to me why they not of similar import aside from the "unbiased" point that obama was factual in his comment.

ftfy

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

For my uncle, who is over seventy, it is the late sixties- when minorities knew their place and beating up queers while on leave was just good American fun.

That's your assessment of his world.

And would you disenfranchise older people as well, since they no longer have a world?

And why make that a matter of ageism? There are young homophobes and racists as well. If your real concern is over their views, why not attack their views and not their age?

For every anecdote you can provide (as your father's case), I can find an elderly person who is not like that, and probably a young person who is like that.

That's why race discrimination and assaulting gay people are illegal. We can criminalize those actions.

It doesn't follow that people who have lived a certain number of years no longer have a world.

 

[Tricky]

Politicians say stupid things because unlike the rest of us someone is always recording what they say.
The article did not explain to me why they not of similar import aside from the unbiased "point" that Obama was factual in his comment.

And that he wasn't slagging off people who might actually vote for him.

Plus, it was said with full knowledge that the mikes were on, so it doesn't come off a "what he whispers behind our backs".

 

[eeyore1954]

For my uncle, who is over seventy, it is the late sixties- when minorities knew their place and beating up queers while on leave was just good American fun.

For my dad, it's a combination of an idealized version of his farm-boy childhood combined with Mayberry and Perry Mason.

I think we should not allow old folks to vote. After all your dad and uncle have dumb positions.

BTW I love Andy, Barney, Aunt Bee, Otis and Opie.
ETA: I am not so sure your dad's position is dumb.

 

[eeyore1954]

That's why race discrimination and assaulting gay people are illegal. We can criminalize those actions.

It doesn't follow that people who have lived a certain number of years no longer have a world.

I say we should allow the death panels decide.

 

[eeyore1954]

And that he wasn't slagging off people who might actually vote for him.

Plus, it was said with full knowledge that the mikes were on, so it doesn't come off a "what he whispers behind our backs".

I agree with the premise that it will have a greater impact on Romney's election chances (which I think were slim already).
But President Obama has had his own off the mike gaffs also. Politicans do.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

With my parents it's been a combination of them getting more liberal and the GOP getting more conservative. They voted for Obama in 2008, although I think they would have voted for McCain had he picked a better VP candidate than Sarah Palin. They say they're voting for Obama again, because they hate Romney. Again, I think they'd still be voting Republican if they'd fielded a better candidate.

My dad's mom was sharp as tack right up until she died at age 90 (fell, broke her hip and got a blood clot). I wouldn't mind the "old guy" comment if he had backed it up with evidence that Hatch was fading mentally.

 

[Piscivore]

And would you disenfranchise older people as well, since they no longer have a world?

It doesn't follow that people who have lived a certain number of years no longer have a world.

I did not say they "didn't have a world". They do- it's just the probability of the world they understand and perceive intersecting with the objective one decreases significantly. If you want to argue that Alzheimers and other neurodegenrative disease are not associated with aging, go ahead.

 

[Tricky]

I agree with the premise that it will have a greater impact on Romney's election chances (which I think were slim already).
But President Obama has had his own off the mike gaffs also. Politicans do.

True, but this one is off the charts. Indeed, it hardly passes as a gaffe at all. It wasn't something he worded poorly, it was an idea he pressed and explained. At no point did he try to explain that he didn't really mean that all 47% would vote against him automatically because they were sucking off the government teat. That was exactly his point. So calling it a "gaffe" is to give it less attention than it deserves.

And he said it because he thought that nobody but a bunch of rich people would hear him. That's how he thinks rich people regard people who don't pay income tax, and maybe he's right, though I'd be willing to bet that more than one person in that crowd was made a little uncomfortable by the remarks. So really, it was just stupid. Once upon a time I thought that Romney was one of the two smartest Republicans running (Huntsman being the other), but the more I hear, the more I am glad that all this is coming out before the election. He would be a disaster of tremendous proportion if elected. We wouldn't have an ally left in the world besides Israel.