Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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Figured as much. But none of the birthers have actually come out and stated that. And I honestly don't expect them to.

Actually, there is Mr. Gordon Epperly of Alaska that is quite explicit in his racism. His lawsuit alleges that Mr. Obama is ineligible to be POTUS because he is "mulatto" and that the Constitution at the time of it's introduce did not consider persons of mixed race to be citizens - therefore Mr. Obama cannot sit as President.

He's also alleging that women cannot hold public office in the US for the same reason (they couldn't at the time the US Constitution came into effect).

But generally you are correct.
 
I think the conspiracies about the death of Vince Foster or the "Clinton Body Count" would be more applicable, which attracted a whole slew of kooks, 'experts' and nutty politicians like William E. Dannemeyer to cluster together. Not sure if they ever filed suit like Taitz though.

There was some right-wing fussing about Clinton's visits to Russia as a student, but nothing really came of it.

I am amused by the right-nutters we had who tried to keep the Clinton Body Count thing around. It was classic "I know better than the experts in their field".
 
When the entire image is rendered the area under the white blotches appear.

Yes. Each individual object isn't supposed to make sense by itself. This is semantically what separates PDF objects from creative layers.

What seems to have happened is that the software that created the pdf file detected something in areas of the background that it moved to a different object ...
so all that went on here is that background image data ended up stored in more than one object.

Conclusively correct. Run enough PDFs through the optimizer and you'll see this kind of artifact all over. As I explained in my detailed explanation of the objects, some were extracted simply because they contained outlying data that, when removed, allowed the remainder of the data to be more effectively quantized. It doesn't even have to be a visually significant outlie; the decision is made statistically and may involve a visually subtle but numerically significant portion of the image.

Copying portions of the background into extracted images, coupled with the bitmask manipulation, means you can render the objects in any order with identical results. That's the other thing that's ludicrous with the Birther claim. Yes, you can tell Photoshop to try to make separate objects out of its Layers when creating a PDF. But the funny thing is, you don't get exactly the same data in the PDF object as you do in the Ps layer. Ps actually copies portions of underlying layers into objects intending to represent higher layers, so that the rendering order works. You can tell Zebest never actually tested her theory. This is why no one saves Ps images as PDFs with the layers-as-objects option. It does not, and cannot, do what you think you want it to.

The Obama PDF file structure is conclusively a product of optimization and nothing else.
 
Don't worry, Dave, a splodge is an undefined something, usually a mark or suchlike, and was IMO directed at the anomaly on the document. I don't know what words you would use in American, but it isn't anything negative.

Smudge is what we use here. The two words are so similar I'm surprised they didn't figure out what it means.
 
A Scanner with X-ray Vision

This anomaly must be zoomed in on to see.

Indeed. As I responded earlier, the Birthers are relegated to the same pixel-wise "anomaly" hunting that we see from people who claim there are alien ruins on Mars and Nazi bases on the Moon. "See these eight pixels? If I wiggle the Photoshop sliders, they turn into what's obviously and alien proboscis!"

That's true desperation.

These dots or splotches may have been discarded errata from an attempt to paint over or erase something in the forgery process but the forger forgot to deal with it.

Oh, right -- the "Inept Forger" theory. I see kids making fake IDs with greater proficiency than the Birthers' imaginary forger has employed. Hence the devolution into "Oh, the forger must have been secretly trying to blow the whistle." Neither the Inept Forger or the Disloyal Forger theory makes a lick of sense. It does, however, explain the stumbling, groping, frantic process the Birthers have employed in changing their speculation to cover up obvious holes in their theory.

As with the other objects on each of the layers you can make these dots disappear by clicking on the button to the left.

What a shocker! You can turn objects on an off and make parts of the composite image appear and disappear!

...but the checkered green background behind the dots.

I.e., a portion of the background copied to a smaller image object during optimization so that when all objects are rendered with their associated bitmasks, the result is a reasonably seamless optimized image.

Since a scanner can only copy what it sees...

Nope. The rocket scientists at WND are looking at one object in an optimized (i.e., post-processed) PDF, not a raw image obtained by a scanner. The notion that what they see in one or two objects is exactly what the scanner (or a human eyeball) would see by looking at the paper source is just frankly astoundingly ignorant. I couldn't ask for a more clueless theory than what I just read. Of course none of WND's wide-eyed, slack-jawed readers will know anything about this, so it's easy for them to just make crap up.

This is what happens when your case is based on what you read in the tabloids. Who do they claim forged the birth certificate? Bigfoot? Bat Boy? The love child of Elvis and a space alien?
 
Indeed. As I responded earlier, the Birthers are relegated to the same pixel-wise "anomaly" hunting that we see from people who claim there are alien ruins on Mars and Nazi bases on the Moon. "See these eight pixels? If I wiggle the Photoshop sliders, they turn into what's obviously and alien proboscis!"

That's true desperation.
As is the multicoloured pixel malarkey.
A pixel is by definition, a dot of a specified colour. There can be no smaller dot because then you have more than one pixel. This is no different than the colour space argument, and I notice that Robert is relict in his attempts to print Pantone 877.

In fact the moon hoax yahoos are the very same.


Oh, right -- the "Inept Forger" theory. I see kids making fake IDs with greater proficiency than the Birthers' imaginary forger has employed. Hence the devolution into "Oh, the forger must have been secretly trying to blow the whistle." Neither the Inept Forger or the Disloyal Forger theory makes a lick of sense. It does, however, explain the stumbling, groping, frantic process the Birthers have employed in changing their speculation to cover up obvious holes in their theory.
<sigh>We are back to a government which must be simultaneously omnipotent and incompetent. Robert, it does not hold water. Furthermore, your proposed simultaneously omnipotent and incompetent government is irrelevent to me, as it is neither my government, nor my country.


What a shocker! You can turn objects on an off and make parts of the composite image appear and disappear!
Gee, I said nothing because I thought I was mis-intrepreting. Surely it cannot be this stupid?
 
Actually, there is Mr. Gordon Epperly of Alaska that is quite explicit in his racism. His lawsuit alleges that Mr. Obama is ineligible to be POTUS because he is "mulatto" and that the Constitution at the time of it's introduce did not consider persons of mixed race to be citizens - therefore Mr. Obama cannot sit as President.

He's also alleging that women cannot hold public office in the US for the same reason (they couldn't at the time the US Constitution came into effect).

But generally you are correct.
Oh dear me, I forgot Epperly. Our resident racists try to avoid that.
 
Oh, right -- the "Inept Forger" theory. I see kids making fake IDs with greater proficiency than the Birthers' imaginary forger has employed.
Being a "birther" means simultaneously believing:

1. The President and his crack team of international, intergenerational fraudsters have spent millions of dollars to suppress The Awful Truth, including years refusing to get Hawaii to make an exception and show the long form certificate, and

2. After all that time and effort, they forged it by having his younger daughter cobble one up in between one afternoon's math and reading homework.
 
Racism. Simple racism.
As I noted before, I think this is the answer in many cases, but not in all. I think a lot of birthers simply have an irrational hatred of his politics. If he had the same history, except for being a staunch conservative on fiscal and social issues, there would be much less of this stupidity. Especially if he had been, say, a veteran of the war in Iraq - although as fairly recent politics demonstrates, even being a decorated combat veteran will not prevent some really vicious attacks if people hate your politics.
 
Being a "birther" means simultaneously believing:

1. The President and his crack team of international, intergenerational fraudsters have spent millions of dollars to suppress The Awful Truth, including years refusing to get Hawaii to make an exception and show the long form certificate, and

2. After all that time and effort, they forged it by having his younger daughter cobble one up in between one afternoon's math and reading homework.

Robert, you continue to miss the point. If need arose, I would be happy to hand my bank details to JayUtah, sts60, pakeha, nomuse, and any amount that I have not mentioned. Why can you not step up and earn that kind of trust?

Apologies to those omitted.
 
The AP "certified" copy...

It isn't "ceritified," it's certified. Your unwillingness to respect the authority of state of Hawaii and the pertinent decisions of several courts on this matter is your own problem. This particular vital record has been authenticated far beyond what has ever been required in the history of the United States. Against that, the Birthers have only a tabloid, a racist sheriff, a nutty lawyer, and a woman who writes books on how to make pretty pictures.


Yes, a digital scan of the photocopies handed at the White House press conference. The certified paper was circulated at the press conference for inspection. It is not a scan of the certified paper copy, as was used to create the PDF. The expectation that they will be identical is naive.

However, this copy is what sank the Birthers. They made all their typography and related "analysis" on the basis of the PDF, including assertions about the degradation of the text etc. that resulted from the PDF optimization process they knew nothing about. They wrongly assumed the paper copy was just a poor printout of the PDF. Then when scans of the photocopy began circulating, the Birthers realized all the handwaving about raster resolution and fidelity was all nonsense because the alleged "printout" was actually at a higher resolution (where the text is concerned) than what they criticized in the PDF. Hence they had to quickly come up with a new theory about there being two forgeries: one for the paper copy and a second one for the PDF.

The degraded text in the PDF is caused by quantization during the PDF optimization process, and has been demonstrated ad nauseam by real experts.

There can be no excuse for not attempting to replicate the backgrounds from baby blue in the AP version to checkered green in the WH PDF version...

Why? Because you say so? They aren't expected to be pixel-wise identical, so quit trying to invent silly new ad hoc tests.

...or admit there must be something very fishy going on here.

Oh there is. There is.

You say that when your scanner scans blue it shows up as blue. The test is when you scan white. Does it show up white? The answer is no. Depending on your scanner settings, your scanner will attempt to balance or alter the colors during its rendition in the internal color model.

I scanned the magazine page earlier, as I mentioned. Some of the "white" portions of the image rendered as orange. Other portions rendered as green. White is not white, and a white background on paper will not universally scan as white. (Even if you set your scanner to scan grayscale, "white" paper will not scan as full white unless you manipulate the scanner controls to apply an appropriate contrast.)

Safety paper is what it is because it prevents you from photocopying a document using ordinary xerography processes without either (a) losing the safety pattern altogether, or (b) rendering the safety pattern so garish as to obscure the text, or to reveal safety-pattern text that identifies it as a xerographic copy. This is to prevent photocopies from being passed off as originals.

The only paper copy that can stand on its own as a certified copy, without separate authentication (which has been provided in this case by Hawaii anyway), is one in which the safety pattern is intact and which the emboss or crimp seal is present in the paper itself. That's what's used to determine the candidate's eligibility, and . There is no constitutional or statutory requirement to give certified copies to the press or to any member of the public as a condition for eligibility.

A more likely explanation is the staffer who was assigned to make copies for the press quickly realized that the safety paper would make this difficult. He therefore fiddled with the contrast and image-quality settings on the copier until enough of the safety-paper pattern had been eliminated, although you can still see vestiges of it in the shade of the gutter margin -- i.e., where the contrast break-point would differ.

Of course, excuses will be made because of the impossibility of performing such a transformation.

The stark mathematics of combinatorial complexity are not excuses. You're the one making excuses for your simplistic understanding. Unless you'd care to answer now the half dozen or so questions I asked you on the subject a month ago.

No? I'm not surprised.

"No excuse for replicating!" Jay asks, "So what's your understanding of how big that problem would be?" Robert answers: [silence]

"No excuse for Obama not authorizing people to view the paper original!" Jay asks, "So what's the legal basis in Hawaii statutes for him to make that authorization?" Robert answers: [silence]

"No excuse for opening a forgery investigation regardless of Full Faith and Credit!" Jay asks, "So what would be the legal theory for such a challenge?" Robert answers: [silence]

Do we see something fishy? You better bet we do.
 
There was some right-wing fussing about Clinton's visits to Russia as a student, but nothing really came of it.

I am amused by the right-nutters we had who tried to keep the Clinton Body Count thing around. It was classic "I know better than the experts in their field".

As far as Clinton, Whitewater was a much bigger proofless boondoggle than the birther stuff, complete with special prosecutor. The comparison of reaction to Obama with Romney and not checking his BC is apt because both have foreign born dads.

There seems to be one of these unproofy doubt brouhahas with every Dem candidate. Swiftboat was the one pulled on Kerry. Gore and the internet invention claim was kind of a weak one, but has passed into urban legend.
 
I think there is also an issue with the Christian Conservative elements because once you have concluded that god is on your side then by definition your political opponents are not simply wrong but actually evil and thus must be stopped by any means necessary.
 
How much do you want to bet that if the Obama campaign had released a digital copy that met the standards the Birthers are asking for, that they would complain that it was obviously forged because it lacked the anomalies expected by scanning and optimizing the document?
 
Figured as much. But none of the birthers have actually come out and stated that. And I honestly don't expect them to.


Just read their blogs and website.

Hating Kate (Post and efail) - allowed racists comments on her "articles" when the site was not a Pay to read site.

Orly - let's a slew of racist remarks through

Birtherreport or the Obama Challenge site - allows a lot of racists remarks through

Freeperville - many of the remarks concern Michelle Obama , always referring to her as a "Moose", "Moo-chelle", Sasquatch, Wookie and the like


Oh they are VERY blatant about their racism.
 
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