Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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Lost in the weeds of his own techno-babble.

The discussion is clearly over your head. However you have yet to prove any of it is "techno-babble." You've proven instead, by your one-word dismissals and your frantic well-poisoning, that you are incapable and afraid of the discussion.

You've failed to meet every single challenge that's been posed to you here regarding your PDF claims.
 
Point to a case where all of the experts cited were not allowed.

Shifting the burden of proof.

You claim your named individuals are experts, even though some of them whom you name have explicitly disavowed being relevant experts. You have failed to show where any of them has been qualified to a court. You have failed to answer questions here regarding their qualifications and expertise.

You are the one trying to qualify them as experts. The burden of proof is on you.
 
Bob, Mr. Newcomer's allegations re the .pdf of the BC are irrelevant. Has he examined the original?

See, I work in the legal system (paralegal with Dept of National Defence Feb 1996 to present) and the courts do not look at e-documents as fraudulent, provided they match the "hard copy", or if the metadata for the document does not show that it has been altered substantively. You may wish to take a look at the Sedona Conferences comments and principles with respect to E-discovery and what is needed with respect to the acceptance of electronic documents in courts in both Canada and the US.

Generally though, courts prefer the printed version of documents, and certified copies are just as good as originals. In this matter, the President has provided a certified copy of his Birth Certificate, and in any court on the planet, not just in the US, this would be accepted as correct.

If you wish to allege that the certified-by-the-issuing-authority document is fraudulent, then YOU need to demonstrate that. The burden of proof is on YOU to do so.

You have also handwaved the technical explanations of a technical issue (how to analyze a pdf file to determine if it has layers, or object groups) as "technobabble" which makes about as much sense as telling your mechanic to stop using "technobabble" when he or she tries to explain why the engine light keeps coming on. If you aren't willing to listen to people who actually know something about the topic at hand, then why raise the points?
 
Bob, Mr. Newcomer's allegations re the .pdf of the BC are irrelevant. Has he examined the original?

See, I work in the legal system (paralegal with Dept of National Defence Feb 1996 to present) and the courts do not look at e-documents as fraudulent, provided they match the "hard copy", or if the metadata for the document does not show that it has been altered substantively. You may wish to take a look at the Sedona Conferences comments and principles with respect to E-discovery and what is needed with respect to the acceptance of electronic documents in courts in both Canada and the US.

Generally though, courts prefer the printed version of documents, and certified copies are just as good as originals. In this matter, the President has provided a certified copy of his Birth Certificate, and in any court on the planet, not just in the US, this would be accepted as correct.

If you wish to allege that the certified-by-the-issuing-authority document is fraudulent, then YOU need to demonstrate that. The burden of proof is on YOU to do so.

You have also handwaved the technical explanations of a technical issue (how to analyze a pdf file to determine if it has layers, or object groups) as "technobabble" which makes about as much sense as telling your mechanic to stop using "technobabble" when he or she tries to explain why the engine light keeps coming on. If you aren't willing to listen to people who actually know something about the topic at hand, then why raise the points?

It is techno-babble because the simple truth is those alleged objects reside on something commonly referred to as Layers.
 
It is techno-babble because the simple truth is those alleged objects reside on something commonly referred to as Layers.

No, they are not commonly referred to as layers. There is no concept of layering in PDF 1.3.

Your pseudo-experts misread the Layers pane in Illustrator, the wrong tool for the job anyway, and have insisted that you help them perpetuate their error. They read it as if it were Photoshop.
 
As any of the "enlightened" on this board would agree, "faith" is believing in something you cannot (or will not) prove.

Irrelevant. The phrase "full faith and credit" has a specific legal meaning that applies here. You have been unable to formulate any legal theory that justifies your claims.
 
Shifting the burden of proof.

You claim your named individuals are experts, even though some of them whom you name have explicitly disavowed being relevant experts. You have failed to show where any of them has been qualified to a court. You have failed to answer questions here regarding their qualifications and expertise.

You are the one trying to qualify them as experts. The burden of proof is on you.

No. It is you who made the sweeping (and totally false) statement that all of the afore mentioned experts' testimony was not admitted in any court.
 
And the Birther "experts" in this thread are not qualified to the courts, despite the Birthers' fervent attempts to offer up their testimony in lawsuits.

Baloney.


Oh really? Please cite the case where the expert testimony was accepted by the courts as expert testimony.


I can cite a case where the Judge found the expert testimony to be lacking and without merit, and called the experts unqualified.
 
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The discussion is clearly over your head. However you have yet to prove any of it is "techno-babble." You've proven instead, by your one-word dismissals and your frantic well-poisoning, that you are incapable and afraid of the discussion.

You've failed to meet every single challenge that's been posed to you here regarding your PDF claims.

Your techno-babble is not a challenge. It is techno-babble.
 
No one outside of Hawaii Dept. of Health has seen the original. That's the point.

too bad. they are the only authority allowed to see it.

And they trump you, your fake experts, Joe Arpaio, Zullo, Orly Taitz and a slew of racist birthers and liars, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
Your techno-babble is not a challenge. It is techno-babble.

My challenges were:

(a) to identify in PDF the layers you say are there.

(b) produce a PDF that has layers.

To date you have failed these challenges. In addition you have failed to address a single point I've made on the subject of PDF data structures and PDF importation. If you didn't want a technical argument you shouldn't have started one. But now that you started it, I intend to finish it.
 
No. It is you who made the sweeping (and totally false) statement that all of the afore mentioned experts' testimony was not admitted in any court.

Three "expert" were allowed to go before the Georgia court to present their "findings". The judge found them to be unqualifed and their testimony to be lacking and without merit. And it wasn't a full court case, it was simply a hearing (you do know what a hearing is right?) .

Orly Taitz paraded these people as experts, and she lost to an empty chair.
 
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