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Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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I have two nephews and one niece on the Autism Spectrum, and their respective parents will tell you....

They were born that way!!!

The earliest indicators (subtle, yes, but detectable) that a child is on the Autism Spectrum can be seen well before the first MMR vaccination at age 15 months.

Parents who think their child 'caught' Autism by having an MMR vaccination are mistaken, fooled and often taken advantage of by charlatans at a vulnerable time when they might have to adjust the hopes and dreams they have for their child.
 
When parents take their toddler to the emergency ward or the doctors they provide the details and patient history.

Provide the details of what, exactly?

Also, any patient history supplied by the parents is subjective, and how many parents rush to the emergency room with autism?

Clayton Moore said:
When parent after parent says their precious toddler regressed into autism after getting an MMR shot they are not credible because they aren't medical professionals?

Is autism instant? Is it a pre-existing condition? How, exactly do the parents know it is autism and that it was caused by vaccination?
 
When parents take their toddler to the emergency ward or the doctors they provide the details and patient history.

When parent after parent says their precious toddler regressed into autism after getting an MMR shot they are not credible because they aren't medical professionals?

In general, I trust parents to provide a relatively accurate patient history, though most parents are unable to recognize subtle symptoms and, as always, memory is fallible.

However, you are not talking about patient history, you are trusting parents' opinions about the causes of diseases. A parent's guess about what caused a child's condition is not in any way authoritative. The fact that so many parents notice that one thing happening after another is only evidence that one thing often happens after another. Finding causes is more difficult than that (and I suspect that even you know this).
 
When parents take their toddler to the emergency ward or the doctors they provide the details and patient history.

When parent after parent says their precious toddler regressed into autism after getting an MMR shot they are not credible because they aren't medical professionals?

If you really think there is a link between vaccines and autism, could you post up the studies that show that?
 
Most of the comments are too stupid to reply to. The video links I've supplied explain the problems with and the possible consequences of vaccines.
You have been asked several times now to explain, in your own words(not link us to someone else's words) EXACTLY what it is that is wrong with vaccines in general and what is specifically wrong with the administration of 9 at once.

You wave away all such requests which one must assume means that you cannot answer the question. If you do not comnprehend your videos or links well enough to summarise their claims then why should we believe you?

The most moronic are those that insist there are no problems with vaccines.

I seem to have read many people including myself who have acknowledged that there are possible reactions to these substances BUT BUT BUT that the vast good done by the administration of them versus the low probability of any reaction at all and the miniscule probability of severe or tragic reaction, compels one to acknowledge that they are of huge benefit to a population.

It's obvious that the people of my generation are healthier than subsequent generations. As in Asthma.

You have been asked time and again to explain claims such as these. Simply pointing to an increase in reported cases of asthma and the incidence of vaccination just won't cut it. You NEED to account for all other possible factors Clayton.

The human body is a complex operation. You can't expect it to react to injection of disease in the same manner as ingestion or inhalation.

If something is admitted to the bloodstream by being absorbed through the lining of the lungs of through the lining of the intestines or stomach, how does that differ, other than in speed, from injection into a vein?

Or is this yet another case of Clayton not being competant to answer a question?

Vaccines are pot luck. There is no chain of custody. Even the so called "normal/acceptable" reactions to vaccines such as fever or seizures should scream "danger Will Robinson."

What do you mean 'chain of custody'. You implying a conspiracy to contaminate otherwise good vaccines? Flesh that one out even a little Clayton.
Also explain exactly why low probability of moderate or severe reaction should cause a ban on all vaccination.


The biggest problem with vaccines is that the healthiest children and the least healthy children are required to get them.
There is no health threshold test.

No, in fact the warnings are quite explicit concerning various contraindicated conditions such as egg allergies for instance.



Plus there is no benchmark that regularly measures the heath of a child. Which means the medical community has no idea whether their vaccine mania is to the detriment/weakening the species.

You are now advocating gov't mandated socialized medicine are you Clayton?

As for whether it is a detriment or benefit to the species, the fact that smallpox was erradicated from the face of the Earth by a program of vaccination, the fact that polio is poised to follow smallpox ( and possibly would have by now had it not been for anti-vax crusaders), the fact that diptheria, whooping cough and measles have been greatly reduced specifically due to vaccination programs would indicate a benefit to society.
 
When parents take their toddler to the emergency ward or the doctors they provide the details and patient history.

When parent after parent says their precious toddler regressed into autism after getting an MMR shot they are not credible because they aren't medical professionals?

Anecdotal evidence reported by parents is not science Clayton. There are NO properly done studies that show a causal link between autism and vaccines, and you should know that by now.
 
Are people who report faulty products via a lemon law expert engineers?


There's a world of difference between "it's broken" and "it's broken because of this specific thing."

You don't need an engineer to tell you that you're constantly taking the vehicle into the shop because "it shakes when applying the brakes". If you don't know, however, you certainly need at least a mechanic to tell you that your rotors are wearing unevenly and that once per year is too frequent for that sort of thing. Further, you'd need at least a mechanic to diagnose exactly what's wrong with your vehicle to produce those effects. Unless you know or learn something about vehicle construction, you're not making that diagnosis yourself.
 
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I am not inclined to buy Wakefield's books. I have in the past purchased books by conspiracists such as "Dark Moon" about the supposed Apollo Hoax. But I need a reason to do so. In that case an AH believer was specifically argueing points made in the book. SPECIFIC points Clayton. So you have utterly failed to do that.
From the link above:
As Andrew Wakefield states in his prologue, “If autism does not affect your family now, it will. If something does not change—and change soon—this is almost a mathematical certainty.
Assuming that you have read this book Clayton, would you mind outlining how Wakefield calculates that every family "will" be affected by autism "soon"?

It is not a parochial look at a trivial medical spat in the United Kingdom, but dispatches from the battlefront in a major confrontation—a struggle against compromise in medicine, corruption of science, and a real and present threat to children in the interests of policy and profit. It is a story of how ‘the system’ deals with dissent among its doctors and scientists.”
Dissent? The proponents of Wakefield's position are few and far between. The vast majority of the world's researchers in this field soundly disagree with wakefield.

In the pursuit of possible links between childhood vaccines, intestinal inflammation, and neurologic injury in children, Wakefield lost his job in London’s Royal Free Hospital, his country of birth, his career, and his medical license.

Hmmm, now why might that have been ,,,, oh here it is...
A recent General Medical Council ruling stated that he was “dishonest, irresponsible and showed callous disregard for the distress and pain of children.”

So he's right and glowing with goodness and everyone else is wrong and eeeveel.
 
No I rely on facts and the fact is Wakefiled is a fraud

Let's take a page out of Clayton's handbag and simply post links
Coverage of Wakefield's conden=mnation
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...honest-and-irresponsible-in-MMR-research.html

Here's an actual controlled study into this issue
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003140
Conclusions/Significance
This study provides strong evidence against association of autism with persistent MV RNA in the GI tract or MMR exposure. Autism with GI disturbances is associated with elevated rates of regression in language or other skills and may represent an endophenotype distinct from other ASD.
teenager DIES from measles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...dies-of-measles-as-cases-of-disease-rise.html
 
Hey, Clayton: how about the millions of parents who *don't* blame vaccines for their childrens' autism.

Are they all lying?
 
Do you believe the parents or corporations standing to lose 100s of millions of dollars?


Why does the fact that Wakefield had a competing MMR vaccine patent and stood to gain millions of dollars if he successfully turned people away from the existing MMR vaccine not register as even somewhat suspicious to you?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Do you believe the parents or corporations standing to lose 100s of millions of dollars?

Arisia said:
I have two nephews and one niece on the Autism Spectrum, and their respective parents will tell you....

They were born that way!!!

Clayton Moore said:
That's pathetic.

So, parents who blame vaccination are to be believed, and those who say no are pathetic?

Why is that? What criteria are those parents with autistic children and say there is no link having to follow?

ETA: Please show the evidence of it being a fact.
 
So, parents who blame vaccination are to be believed, and those who say no are pathetic?

Why is that? What criteria are those parents with autistic children and say there is no link having to follow?

ETA: Please show the evidence of it being a fact.

Why are they pathetic?

Because they are so gullible that they believe the medical community when when it tells them they can't figure out why 1 and a 1/2 year old toddlers become autistic after receiving a MMR vaccination.
 
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So... today was Michael's 6 month round of vaccinations. Influenza, DTP, Hep B, Hib, Penumococcal Conjugate, & Polio. Didn't even spike a fever.

Tough kid too. He cried for about 30 seconds & then started giggling.
 
Why are they pathetic?
Because they disagree with your nonsense, apparently.
Because they are so gullible that they believe the medical community when when it tells them they can't figure out why 1 and a 1/2 year old toddlers become autistic after receiving a MMR vaccination.
Except that this is not what the medical community tells them.

They become autistic after the vaccination because the vaccinations come before the developmental period in which autism becomes apparent.

You see, there's this little thing we big kids call "time" and it keeps things from happening all at once.

But one of the things that does *not* happen is that vaccines *cause* autism, as the vast majority of parents report.

The ones you dismiss as pathetic.

The ones that out number, by a very large margin, those who whine about vaccines like you do.

Tell us all, oh master of internal medicine: exactly *how* is it different if a pathogen enters the blood stream via injection, orally, or through the skin?

Is the pathogen different? Is the bloodstream different? Is the body's reaction different?

What's that? You can't tell us? Well, then, by using what passes for your 'logic' you cannot be trusted on this matter, since you cannot say how toddlers get different pathogens from the different vectors of exposure.
 
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