Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[bipto]

bipto,
I'm sure that you realize that passing feces is not a one time thing. That is, there would be a constant replenishment of feces; you are talking about a group of animals the size of cows. I would suggest that perhaps you could perform a very simple experiment to determine how quickly primate feces are removed by dung beetles, etc. in your area. Use your own. I would place a trail cam nearby to make sure no hoaxers are messing with your science.

Let's pretend we found a nice, steamy loaf of wood ape crap. What would we do with it that would be roundly accepted as useful? DNA? Or is this another attempt to show how we're being hoaxed and there aren't any apes in the area?

As I said, the place has a large bear population. We hardly ever see any bear scat. Should I expend resources trying to figure out why?

 

[bipto]

Are you saying that the ones which are "human-sized" are much faster than humans?

Animals of that size are the only kind I've witnessed moving at high speed. And I wouldn't say an animal seven feet tall is "human sized". It's possible the larger ones are just as fast, but I don't know for certain.

Are you saying these Bigfoots can catch deer but people like us really can't because we don't have the speed?

If you can run down a deer, I'd like to see it.

Are these Bigfoots faster than say Olypian or world class runners?

I'm not familiar with the speed of Olympian sprinters, but the animals I saw were far, far faster on that terrain and going up that slope than any person who's tried (including me).

Do you think that they could throw a pig? You know like the strength of an ape but with a more human form?

We have a credible witness account that suggests they could. Based on their size and assumed strength, I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[bipto]

bipto,
I'm sure that you realize that passing feces is not a one time thing. That is, there would be a constant replenishment of feces; you are talking about a group of animals the size of cows. I would suggest that perhaps you could perform a very simple experiment to determine how quickly primate feces are removed by dung beetles, etc. in your area. Use your own. I would place a trail cam nearby to make sure no hoaxers are messing with your science.

Here's another response from one of my colleagues.

"The dung beetles in that area are very plentiful. They can and do remove human feces within a couple of hours in many cases. This has been witnessed by one of our investigators. Some ranches in southern Oklahoma have reported as much as 1 ton of feces/acre/day being worked by dung beetles."

 

[bipto]

Your sighting looks biased by a kind of group phenomena to me.

Three people are in the woods and see an animal from different vantage points. One just sees a tawny colored animal. Person two sees a deer, but can't tell what kind. Person three sees the rump, which has a ropey, black tipped tail, and a white saddle shape extending up the hips. Put their parts together and you end up with all three of them seeing a mule deer.

Another kind of "group phenomena."

 

[bipto]

1902 Africa versus 2012 Oklahoma isn't an apt analogy.

Also, how about 2008 Africa and 125,000 gorillas in one region versus 2012 Oklahoma and a small number (50 or less) of this animal? Look it up. That discovery was made in August of 2008.

 

[jerrywayne]

Bipto's adventure at Area X is the only part of the spring and summer TBRC activity that I've looked at; for now I'm doubtful that we are looking at ape and human interaction in the wilds of Oklahoma. Given that, I still appreciate Bipto's comments, time, and generally even-tempered responses in this skeptic-believer interaction.

The following are statements made by the owner of the cabins, Charles Branson, on Squatch Detective radio show of Oct. 17, 2011.

Some of his comments relating to the inhabitants of the area, called Wood Apes by the TBRC: "...we know those folks are there, we don't want them bothered. They're non-violent, and we've watched them, ya know, for years, their habits and everything."

"... they change seasonal their fur, just like other wildlife does."

"They're wonderful people."

Asked if he has a good relationship with them: "Yes, and they know it."

Asked if they recognize people after a passage of time: "I think so. Spiritually I think they do. They're super smart. And uh, they, they can just feel..."

Remarking on that year's TBRC attempt to shoot one: "But when we go to the cabins, this hunting season, we're gonna have to be extra careful and communicate with them fellas. Ya know, let 'em know that wasn't us pulling that trigger."

Things are sure curious in Area X. I wonder if TBRC has thought to employ Branson as a negotiator, since he seems to know how to communicate with the what-is-its in the hills of SE Oklahoma.

 

[AttorneyTom]

Also, how about 2008 Africa and 125,000 gorillas in one region versus 2012 Oklahoma and a small number (50 or less) of this animal? Look it up. That discovery was made in August of 2008.

How long have you been interested in researching BF and their habits ?

 

[bipto]

I wonder if TBRC has thought to employ Branson as a negotiator, since he seems to know how to communicate with the what-is-its in the hills of SE Oklahoma.

Mr. Branson's opinions are his own.

 

[William Parcher]

Let's pretend we found a nice, steamy loaf of wood ape crap. What would we do with it that would be roundly accepted as useful? DNA?

If the turd is steaming then it can be very useful to all societies by proving that Bigfoot exists. But you don't present the turd to the world, you present a body. You use the turd to lead you directly to Bigfoot and then you shoot it. If it's steaming then the pooper is nearby. You find him and shoot him and then it's all over. It should be pretty easy since you guys say you see them with regularity.

But putting that obvious bit aside...

Are you honestly saying that science would not be interested in the feces of a non-human bipedal ape? Get real Bipto. You have genuine Bigfoots right there in front of you... they are pooping... and you say that their poop is just not useful to science here in the 21st Century?

 

[DennyT]

Here's another response from one of my colleagues.

"The dung beetles in that area are very plentiful. They can and do remove human feces within a couple of hours in many cases. This has been witnessed by one of our investigators. Some ranches in southern Oklahoma have reported as much as 1 ton of feces/acre/day being worked by dung beetles."

So is it your position that a ton of feces can be dropped on a continuous basis, and consumed every day continuously and no one could notice the feces or fecer or the consumer?

I mean, how many dung beetles have you seen feeding on dung piles in your area? Round numbers....

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

I might ask what is your motive for this? If you post the location (assuming this is the location), aren't you risking someone going there and being killed? The TBRC states quite clearly that they are there to shoot one. Wouldn't you be a party to any law suit or criminal case that would come from it? Would the JREF board also be a part of such a case for allowing it to be posted? This seems like a dangerous road to be going down.

Excellent questions.

Thanks for that confirmation of the threat about people being killed by TBRC members for being on public land.


I've made clear the purpose of publishing their location is to provide the truth. For example, their claims about how many miles to houses people are living in - their claim is 20 to 30 miles. There isn't any place in Oklahoma where that is true, as demonstrated by both population density maps, county records, google earth, etc.

The population density maps for LeFlore county in the Oachitas have 1-10 people per square mile, so just based on that it is probably less than a mile to someone's house. If they're saying 30 miles and it is less than a mile, then it isn't just false - it is false to an incredible degree.

Once you have located houses close to this fabled area X you can interview them. People who have been living there every day for years on end - to compare to the claims of these part-time visitors with no qualifications. You can take pictures of the cabins and terrain without trespassing and compare those to the various wild claims.

I think we should also write the Oachita National Forest Management and let them know about the threats of violence to users of public land from people who claim to be hunting an animal that does not exist.

Real hunters, who are crawling all over this public land, make no such threats. Nor are they considered a threat by others. These real hunters actually do kill game.

The Oklahoma deer harvest is over 100,000 annually. Add in turkeys, pheasants, quail, ducks, geese, bears, squirrels etc and you are well over half a million animals killed a year. This shrill cry about people getting killed from a group that has only identified one single individual with a gun, hunting an imaginary animal - this shows you how far from reality these comments are.

I've written the county now and we'll see what format you can get these plat maps in. I don't want to buy the plats for the entire county. But I do promise to publish here what I can get ahold of.

 

[DennyT]

Mr. Branson knows how to market his rental properties.

 

[Resume]

Also, how about 2008 Africa and 125,000 gorillas in one region versus 2012 Oklahoma and a small number (50 or less) of this animal? Look it up. That discovery was made in August of 2008.

One is an actual discovery, the other is an unsupported assertion.

 

[Castro]

About those blood samples collected more than one year ago:

Bipto at the BFF 27 August 2012
There were rocks collected last year with blood on them that we presume came from the animal shot during the Echo Incident, but we have nothing to report at this time regarding those samples. They are in the hands of a capable lab unaffiliated with Melba Ketchum and are being tested.

Bipto at the BFF 30 August 2012
Q:I missed the answer to the result of the blood sample?
A:There is nothing new to report. We are waiting for results.

Bipto at the JREF 9th September 2012
The first lab we worked with was unreliable and didn't take our sample seriously. Essentially, they took our blood and money and then blew us off. We have held onto the remaining samples for a better opportunity. Right now, the only thing Sykes has from us is hair. The blood is available to him. There are, I believe, three more samples of that blood.

Bipto at the JREF 10th September 2012
Q: Blood samples? You allege that a lab ripped you off, but you have more samples. You have chosen to sit on these for over a year, because? I really want to know the answer to that one.
A: I said they didn't take us seriously. Perhaps they ripped us off. It's not worth pursuing. We have chosen not to move on the samples because we feel, if they are what we hipe they are, then they're incredibly rare. There isn't any reason to be rash about that happens next with them. They're being stored in an appropriate way to preserve and protect them from contamination.

So Bipto,

Are those blood samples in the hands of a capable lab, being tested, and are you waiting for results, as you stated at the BFF ?

or

Was the lab unreliable, didn't take you seriously, and did you chose not to move on the samples, as you stated here?

Thanks.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes, what did the first lab tell you, or do with your samples, Bipto?

Your description sounds like the lab told you the samples weren't even blood, or told you the samples were fake, or some other possibly bad news.

 

[mikeyx]

My presumption is that once the animal is proven, there will be considerably more resources put into the study of them than there is now. As far as I know, there isn't anything like what the TBRC is doing anywhere else (and perhaps there never has been), but even then, we are just a handful of people at any given time using our own equipment and our own time, many of us not professionally trained in wildlife biology. How much better would a well-funded, experienced team of primate specialists do than an organization of teachers, accountants, doctors, and marketing weasels? I hope we'll be able to find out.



Logging, urban sprawl, etc. You should know better than I how man impacts the wild places in our country.

why arent you out there bagging and tagging one now?

 

[Resume]

If you can run down a deer, I'd like to see it.

Have you seen a bigfoot run down a deer? Or are you just guessing speeds?

 

[bipto]

How long have you been interested in researching BF and their habits ?

Like most kids in the 70's, I had an interest driven by Leonard Nimoy and the Six Million Dollar Man. It went dormant until about 2002, then I started the Bigfoot Forums. I've been active in the field since about 2006, more so in recent years.

 

[GT/CS]

Mr. Branson knows how to market his rental properties.

And those who own marketing companies know how to market bigfoot and the TBRC.

 

[bipto]

Are you honestly saying that science would not be interested in the feces of a non-human bipedal ape? Get real Bipto. You have genuine Bigfoots right there in front of you... they are pooping... and you say that their poop is just not useful to science here in the 21st Century?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm sure a genuine sasquatch loaf would be of great interest to certain icky branches of biology, but nobody's going to give such a sample the time of day until we can show them the digestive tract that produced it.