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Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

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Thousands of people, most considered reliable, trustworthy citizens, saw fairies during the big fairy craze of the late nineteenth century. They knew fairies were real--they'd seen them. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was among them.

I would suggest that fairies never chucked a softball sized rock onto Sir Aurthur's roof or charged him through the bush.

I could just as easily turn this around and say gorillas were dismissed as fantasy until one was shot and dragged out of the jungle.
 
have you collected stool specimens from the area and or seen places where you think these creatures have buried their feces?

We've never found scat we are certain is from an ape. As I've said, there are many bear in the area. We've found what we think is likely bear poo, but not ape. However, even bear scat finds are rare. Oklahoma has a thriving dung beetle population (as I'm sure Saskeptic/Shrike can attest) and I assume they are very efficient at their work. Also, the summer months especially aren't conducive to that material lasting long in a condition that would be worthwhile for study.

Did you go to the spot where you all saw these animals, and look for footprints, hair, or other trace evidence?

Absolutely. We have found tracks and trackways and have found at least one intriguing hair sample.

At what distance was it from you? from the others?

If you're talking about my experience, they were maybe 40 yards away. We were all sitting together.

Have you pursued these animals? If not, why not?

We often pursue them, though they have a distinct advantage moving over that terrain. It's one of the reasons I doubt they're human hoaxers. We, unencumbered by a suit, cannot move anywhere near as quickly as they can.
 
Is someone there constantly?

No.

You said that hunters using the cabin for a weekend didn't mention anything, was that what you are aware of or you asked and no one reported anything?

The initial reports that led us to this area more than a decade ago were from people who use the cabins.

When you swap out new people in the cabin does the activity level change?

Sometimes.
 
I might ask what is your motive for this? If you post the location (assuming this is the location), aren't you risking someone going there and being killed? The TBRC states quite clearly that they are there to shoot one. Wouldn't you be a party to any law suit or criminal case that would come from it? Would the JREF board also be a part of such a case for allowing it to be posted? This seems like a dangerous road to be going down.

Excellent questions.
 
When the team had their collective sighting, you stated that each person had different perspectives because of their positions. One member didn't even see the Wood Apes. Am I right that the members were together, arranged around a campsite when Ms. Strain said "Look.....!" How far apart were team members then, if each person saw different aspects of the subjects, or saw nothing at all? Were some vantage points obscured by bush or trees?

We were arrayed in a semicircle about 12 feet across, I guess. Yes, the one person who saw nothing had an obscured vantage point (structures, though, not foliage). The event was over so quickly that had you (like me) looked at Kathy and not the slope, your sighting would have been less valuable.

Why would you include the human-sized "sniper's position" impression on the ground as evidence of an ape? Given the fact that you have former military members at TBRC, would not a better explanation be that an earlier team member had simply hid out trying to get the drop on the prize, or some unknown human was laying out spying on TBRC for reasons unknown?

Nobody in the group had positioned themselves in that area before we found the "sniper" lay. It would have been highly out of character for an armed member to be in positon to shoot into the campsite.

You have suggested that hunters leasing the cabins have not been harassed by apes because their stay is too brief. Do you know for a fact that hunters only use these cabins on weekends and never stay longer, or that some hunting parties arrive shortly after others depart?

I have an answer for this, but I fear it would give those looking for the location more clues so I won't give it to you. Sorry about that.

Also, didn't you say on your podcast that the first TBRC team this year encountered rock throwing and other phenomena? If true, how did the apes know that this group was part of a larger group that would be staying for a while?

They presumably didn't. We surmise they may be starting to recognize individuals or their vehicles. This behavior could be "left over" from the 2011 operation. This year's activity was markedly higher.
 
...yet not one of these people were able to take one single photo of anything at all? You do all have a digital camera in your pocket, right?

I feel like I've answered this question, in various forms, a hundred times. Sightings are brief, cameras take too long to turn on, wearable cameras that are always on are better sounding than they turn out to be in practice, I personally would rather have a better sighting than get a picture for someone else since pictures are crap evidence for this animal. IMHO.

Blood samples? You allege that a lab ripped you off, but you have more samples. You have chosen to sit on these for over a year, because?
I really want to know the answer to that one.

I said they didn't take us seriously. Perhaps they ripped us off. It's not worth pursuing.

We have chosen not to move on the samples because we feel, if they are what we hipe they are, then they're incredibly rare. There isn't any reason to be rash about that happens next with them. They're being stored in an appropriate way to preserve and protect them from contamination.

If the blood samples exist, and if they were obtained in the way you claim, you must be able to prove this with photos. Otherwise there is no point testing the blood, as it could have come from anywhere or thing. You know this, right?

Prove what with photos? I don't follow.
 
It will presumably be the work of trained biologists to learn more about the species and their habitat.
Trained wildlife biologists have been working in the Ouachitas for decades without so much as producing a decent photo of this species. How will such people suddenly be able to detect and study bigfoots once you and your team haul that first carcass out of the woods?

Hunting is not the threat to this animal (or to most), it's the decimation of habitat.
Where is bigfoot habitat being decimated?
 
More anti-hoaxing tips:
TIP 1A Sneak a game cam onto the hill that the rocks are coming from, there must be a clearing up there, that they can get the rocks through the trees from.
TIP 2A Sneak a game cam onto the forest road that approaches the area, get a photo of EVERY CAR that comes down the road. "Hey BIPTO, why is the owners nephews truck heading into the area at 8PM? and who is this following him?"


Evidence Tip: You want to stop using cameras because the photos would still be questioned, but you said you are going through AUDIO FILES? I can think of nothing more wasteful of your effort than AUDIO FILES. A. if it's a bigfoot, it could still be mistaken for something else B. How would you know that a sound comes from a BIGFOOT without knowing what they sound like?

Bipto said:
I would suggest that fairies never chucked a softball sized rock onto Sir Aurthur's roof or charged him through the bush.
I would agree with this assessment. I would also say the following;
Drewbot possibly saying said:
I would suggest that BIGFOOT never chucked a softball sized rock onto BIPTO's roof or charged him through the bush.

General layout of cams on hypothetical roads that I don't care to know about their location or anything, just saying, if there are limited dirt tracks heading to the area of the site, then pop a game cam on the road and get the cars coming into the area.


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The point is that Bigfoot seems to be the only creature that is able to avoid 100% of the trail cameras out there in the world because it wants to avoid trail cameras.

Frustrating, isn't it? Imagine busting your hump for five years dealing with the darned things and having nothing to show for it. On the bright side, we have become cold stone experts in how the things work (or don't). Here's what I said in another post about it:

Here's the thing about cameras. They have several limitations (even the most expensive ones).

1. Camera trigger problem (tested and proven to be a problem after cameras were pulled) - They're slower in practice than they are in the lab.
2. Small area covered by the sensors, in a great big forest (maybe 400sqft)
3. PIR relies on heat signatures, which isn't ideal in a hot humid environment with lots of sun heated rocks - We get a ton of pictures of trees moving in the wind.
4. The subject has to "cross the streams", or detection zones to trigger it, so walking straight at or away doesn't always trigger it. We've seen this ourselves in that *we* are not always recorded as we appriach the cameras for service.
5. There is probably some degree of avoidance, i.e. alpha male coyote study
 
bipto,
I'm sure that you realize that passing feces is not a one time thing. That is, there would be a constant replenishment of feces; you are talking about a group of animals the size of cows. I would suggest that perhaps you could perform a very simple experiment to determine how quickly primate feces are removed by dung beetles, etc. in your area. Use your own. I would place a trail cam nearby to make sure no hoaxers are messing with your science.
 
Do you have any proof of the existence of Bigfoots?


Why do people in this thread keep asking this question when you know the answer?


The answer is, of course, no. You don't have any proof, nor do you have any objective evvidence that any such creature exists.

While this won't endear me to you at all, I take the word of people I've known for a very long time and literally trust with my life in combination with what my own senses observed as sufficient for me to say I had a sighting. You can think whatever you like, of course.


Those people who also have absolutely no objective evidence for the existence of Bigfoot. So it's someone taking someone else's word passing it along and asking others to take their word. You do, of course, understand how it is not reasonable to accept anything any of your sources say about the issue as true, don't you?

As a group, we spend all our vacation time, significant resources, and much physical effort to do what we do. I apologize if you find our effort insufficient.


Interesting that you should use the term "insufficient" as a synonym for the term "nonexistent".

Obviously, because I have an outstanding imagination.


I wouldn't say outstanding. None of the Bigfoot tales told here so far and none of the alleged supporting arguments have been particularly imaginative.

Just because we haven't found evidence doesn't mean it isn't there.


Yes, the old "absence of evidence" saw. I guess when every efffort to obtain evidence has resulted in failure, platitudes are about all that's left.

We have seen rocks sailing down from the mountainside. We have collected them from the roof of the cabin and neighboring outbuildings. We have had them land close to us on the ground. Therefore, when we hear what sounds like a rock hitting a metal object, we assume it is just that.


Maybe part of the reason for the continued failure is that you're working from assumptions rather than objective reality.

I think the legal effort to protect their habitat would be enormous. Significantly more contentious than the spotted owl issue. To your point, there are a plethora of reports coming from some potentially dubious sources.


Since there is and never has been any objective evidence to support the notion that Bigfoot exists, all reports come from dubious sources.

One of the things advocates of leaving them undiscovered argue is that, once they're proven, there will be a rash of big game hunters taking out swaths of unsuspecting wood apes for the walls of wealthy collectors. As you suggest, I doubt that will be an issue.


Indeed, since not even a single specimen has ever been taken, or even witnessed by a reliable source, the idea of anyone taking swaths of them is downright ludicrous.

Hunting is not the threat to this animal (or to most), [...]


Indeed, again. Hunting is not a threat to the Loch Ness Monster, leprechauns, ghosts, or the Chupacabra either. And all for the exact same reason.

We've been advised that print collection would be impossible, [...]


Advised? You might consider that no Bigfoot has ever been shown to exist, therefore any advice anyone might offer about the possibility of obtaining fingerprints is a work of fiction.

[...] but have very recently also been told that DNA could be obtained from them. No idea what the cost or procedure for that is, but I suspect that going forward we will bag and save the rocks instead of simply brushing them to the ground.


That's a good idea. At least you'll have some rocks.

Here's the thing about cameras. They have several limitations (even the most expensive ones).

1. Camera trigger problem (tested and proven to be a problem after cameras were pulled) - They're slower in practice than they are in the lab.
2. Small area covered by the sensors, in a great big forest (maybe 400sqft)
3. PIR relies on heat signatures, which isn't ideal in a hot humid environment with lots of sun heated rocks - We get a ton of pictures of trees moving in the wind.
4. The subject has to "cross the streams", or detection zones to trigger it, so walking straight at or away doesn't always trigger it. We've seen this ourselves in that *we* are not always recorded as we appriach the cameras for service.
5. There is probably some degree of avoidance, i.e. alpha male coyote study


Excuses in lieu of a substantive argument noted.

We have recently discussed the use of mechanical triggers, but haven't, er, "pulled the trigger" on any. Thing is, what's the value of an image? Would anyone here accept one we produced? I have advocated we focus on other forums of evidence collection and reduce the effort put into cameras because, at the end of the day, we all agree that pictures won't do it.


At the end of the day you'll have a bag of rocks.

I would suggest that fairies never chucked a softball sized rock onto Sir Aurthur's roof or charged him through the bush.


I would suggest that Bigfoot never did any such thing either. And all you've really got is a plethora of reports coming from some dubious sources.

They presumably didn't. We surmise they may be starting to recognize individuals or their vehicles. This behavior could be "left over" from the 2011 operation. This year's activity was markedly higher.


Your mistake here is surmising that something has certain characteristics when that thing has never been shown to even exist.
 
bipto,
I assume that Kathy Strain's visit was not a surprise to members of the group, but would not have been known to potential hoaxers outside the group ie local yokels/the property owner. Furthermore I assume that the sighting was an extraordinary event. I am therefore thinking that event was staged by someone within your group for her "benefit."
 
Sorry for the snark above. This is a tiring exercise...


You are claiming to have done an extended stay around a group of Bigfoots, seen them on several occasions, and are offering relatively nothing in the way of proof. Did you expect anything less?
 
I could just as easily turn this around and say gorillas were dismissed as fantasy until one was shot and dragged out of the jungle.

1902 Africa versus 2012 Oklahoma isn't an apt analogy.
 
If you care to, listen to the sounds I've included in the last episode of the Bigfoot Show (#40). Those are clearly not metal cans expanding.

Actually don't bother. I can imagine how hard it would be listening to me blather on for an hour just to hear this.

I still can't post a link here, so lets try this...

http://media.texasbigfoot.com/Zulu_rock_throw.mp3

Plus...

http://media.texasbigfoot.com/Zulu_debris_rain.mp3

The first sound is a very well recorded yet completely typical rock throw. You can hear it sail through the trees, hitting branches and leaves along way, then striking the roof of the cabin, rolling around, then fall off onto the ground.

The second documents totally new behavior. Massive numbers of rocks, nuts, twigs - pretty much anything you can pick up off the ground - being thrown at the cabin (not just on the roof). Three mornings in a row, though this recording is of the longest session. And yes, we did go outside to investigate (armed and ready to collect the specimen). Each time, the team members would hear what they presumed to be large animals retreat up the hill.
 
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Bipto on BFF said:
Based on the speed I saw, at least the smaller ones (< 7 feet) should have no problem catching a deer. Maybe not winning a foot race with one, but certainly they're fast enough to get it if caught by surprise.

Are you saying that the ones which are "human-sized" are much faster than humans? Are you saying these Bigfoots can catch deer but people like us really can't because we don't have the speed? Are these Bigfoots faster than say Olypian or world class runners?

Do you think that they could throw a pig? You know like the strength of an ape but with a more human form?
 
bipto,
I assume that Kathy Strain's visit was not a surprise to members of the group, but would not have been known to potential hoaxers outside the group ie local yokels/the property owner. Furthermore I assume that the sighting was an extraordinary event. I am therefore thinking that event was staged by someone within your group for her "benefit."

From one of Bipto's earlier posts: "We are either telling the truth and wood apes are real or we're lying."

I find that statement to be, err, interesting. I am willing to accept Bipto's claim that they are not being "hoaxed" by third parties or other members within the group.
 
Trained wildlife biologists have been working in the Ouachitas for decades without so much as producing a decent photo of this species. How will such people suddenly be able to detect and study bigfoots once you and your team haul that first carcass out of the woods?

My presumption is that once the animal is proven, there will be considerably more resources put into the study of them than there is now. As far as I know, there isn't anything like what the TBRC is doing anywhere else (and perhaps there never has been), but even then, we are just a handful of people at any given time using our own equipment and our own time, many of us not professionally trained in wildlife biology. How much better would a well-funded, experienced team of primate specialists do than an organization of teachers, accountants, doctors, and marketing weasels? I hope we'll be able to find out.

Where is bigfoot habitat being decimated?

Logging, urban sprawl, etc. You should know better than I how man impacts the wild places in our country.
 
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