Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[A'isha]

Oh, but it does matter. Information is one thing and may have been added or substituted at a later date, but the State has refused to confirm that the BC copy is really a copy of the original. Now why would the state refuse to make such a confirmation? The answer is too obvious.

Yes. The answer is they haven't refused. They, in fact, have officially confirmed it five separate times now - three times on certified copies of the certificate itself, and twice more in official verification letters regarding the information contained on those certificates.

 

[JayUtah]

Information is one thing and may have been added or substituted at a later date...

Not without that fact appearing on the copies as the annotation "LATE" or "ALTERED" or "AMENDED." Klayman cites only part of the relevant law, the part that seems to indicate he has a case. The Obama birth certificate is certified as presented.

...but the State has refused to confirm that the BC copy is really a copy of the original.

Patently, maliciously false.

Now why would the state refuse to make such a confirmation? The answer is too obvious.

Factually false and speculative. This is why your cases fail in court, Robert.

 

[Mudcat]

Nonsense. The GOP knows very well that the pursuit of what might prove to be High Treason by the President of the United States at the same time would be political suicide for the GOP.

I don't think that means what you think it does.

 

[JayUtah]

I don't think that means what you think it does.

And in the real America, all accusations of treason are investigated by a single county sheriff.

 

[Mudcat]

And in the real America, all accusations of treason are investigated by a single county sheriff.

What I don't get is that 'high treason' is very specifically defined as betraying one's king. But since Obama is the president, he's essentially the king of America. Does that mean he's betraying himself?

 

[R.A.F.]

deleted

 

[JayUtah]

Ad hoc rationalization. There is no reason whatsoever to think it would be political suicide. That's just asserted.

Robert's theory requires the Democratic party to be practically omnipotent in doctoring records and browbeating the Hawaiian government into vouching for a known-forged birth certificate. But the GOP, in contrast, is comparatively powerless -- fearful of a "Constitutional crisis" for discovering the sitting President is ineligible. That's a relatively straightforward situation, were it true. The major American parties had no problem slogging out the 2000 election in court, amid charges of electoral fraud.

 

[Ladewig]

Nonsense. The GOP knows very well that the pursuit of what might prove to be High Treason by the President of the United States at the same time would be political suicide for the GOP.

[snicker]

That one gets funnier every time you tell it.

 

[Dave Rogers]

[...] the State has refused to confirm that the BC copy is really a copy of the original.

Outright bare faced lies now, Robert? Is that all you have left?

Dave

 

[Matthew Ellard]

What I don't get is that 'high treason' is very specifically defined as betraying one's king. But since Obama is the president, he's essentially the king of America. Does that mean he's betraying himself?

I just went through and had a look at USA Federal law. Treason requires an act on behalf of a foreign nation. Robert Prey has not taken us through his logic as to what foreign nation the President has betrayed the USA.

I am fascinated to see how Robert will deduce which nation this is, or how he has concluded any foreign nation is involved at all.

 

[Dcdrac]

I just went through and had a look at USA Federal law. Treason requires an act on behalf of a foreign nation. Robert Prey has not taken us through his logic as to what foreign nation the President has betrayed the USA.

I am fascinated to see how Robert will deduce which nation this is, or how he has concluded any foreign nation is involved at all.

Oh thats easy the SCR did it the Smurf Communist Republic

 

[000063]

Most conspiracy theories are about grim hoaxes, mass murder, etc. But aside from its obvious racist roots, there's no reason to be alarmed if this theory IS true. I mean, let's say for a moment that Robert is right, and Obama was born in Kenya. Ok, so what ? So, the constitution doesn't allow for a non-native to become president (which I disagree with). So he's not legally president but... even so, it's not really that catastrophic, is it ?

Which is why they add more layers to the conspiracy to make it more sinister. Otherwise no one would really care anyway.

It is remarkable how the theory depends on Obama having a great deal of power before he even became president. More power than the president has, in fact.

One out of 1200 replicated might tend to prove innocence. But no such luck.

Why the qualifiers? Oh, right, so you can backpedal later.

Nonsense. The GOP knows very well that the pursuit of what might prove to be High Treason by the President of the United States at the same time would be political suicide for the GOP.

Except that they could've easily prevented him from being elected in the first place, as several have pointed out. If the GOP could show that the Dems even nominated someone who wasn't eligible, that's egg on the Dems' faces for the next decade or so. Much less elected him President. They look like the good guys, and the Dems look like liars.

I don't know why you bothered to quote the whole post if you're only answering one part of it. Oh, wait, I do.

More nonsense. In politics, as in life, truth is not what is, but what people perceive is. You could have a majority of Congress and nine Supreme Court justices come down against The Anointed One, but if O really was ever impeached or deposed over this, American's cities would burn to the ground just as they did after the assassination of MLK,

Appeal to emotion, false equivalence, and while there were widespread riots, America didn't "burn to the ground".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_assassination_riots

Outright bare faced lies now, Robert? Is that all you have left?

Dave

No.

Not that it's not a lie, but that this is new. He's tried it before.

 

[Ladewig]

I just went through and had a look at USA Federal law. Treason requires an act on behalf of a foreign nation. Robert Prey has not taken us through his logic as to what foreign nation the President has betrayed the USA.

I am fascinated to see how Robert will deduce which nation this is, or how he has concluded any foreign nation is involved at all.

Well, to be fair. If one is not born in the U.S. and one claims to be born in the U.S. and uses that claim as an important step in becoming POTUS, then I think one is within spitting distance from treason.

Of course, that charge would require President Obama to know he wasn't born in the U.S. If he falsely, but sincerely believed he was a natural born U.S. citizen, then that is a different can of worms.

 

[Robert Prey]

Yes. The answer is they haven't refused. They, in fact, have officially confirmed it five separate times now - three times on certified copies of the certificate itself, and twice more in official verification letters regarding the information contained on those certificates.

"information." Yes. exact copy, no.

 

[Dcdrac]

"information." Yes. exact copy, no.

This is even more absurd than your "experts stundie" how do you do it?

 

[Robert Prey]

Horse poop. All the documents you have asked for have been produced. It's your burden to disprove them.


Horse poop. The GOP would gleefully love to impeach a Democratic President. They spent nearly 8 years and $40 million going after the last one.

Your arguments are completely contradictory to reality.

Nonsense. 8 years ago the GOP in the elected congress consisted largely of RINOS.

 

[Robert Prey]

Meaningless speculation. You have no legal case, and you have no evidentiary case. I've presented what everyone except you considers to be an effective rebuttal to your regurgitation of the Birther forgery claims. You are obviously not equipped to argue on the merits, so you're trying to speculate up some new reasons why your irrational beliefs are not widely believed.

Baloney. All you've presented are "objects are not layers" techno-babble, but no proof of anything.

 

[Robert Prey]

Your party would let politics decide which principles they adhere to and which ones they discard? That is rather sad, especially for something as huge as High Treason.

Some people put country before party. Moreover, the GOP is not my party.

 

[Dcdrac]

Baloney. All you've presented are "objects are not layers" techno-babble, but no proof of anything.

No RP Jay has very succesfully demonstrated once again you know nothing about how PDFs work and he knows exactly how they work.

 

[Dcdrac]

http://www.jpedal.org/PDFblog/2010/09/grow-your-own-pdf-file-part-1-pdf-objects-and-data-types/

A PDF file is predominately made up of objects organised into a tree structure where each node of the tree is an object. Each object can represent one of the eight data types that a PDF reader can understand: strings, arrays, numbers (integer and real), boolean values (true/false), name objects (see later), associated arrays (called dictionaries), streams (which consist of a dictionary and a load of binary stuff), and a null object . If you open up a PDF file in a text editor you will notice lots of objects.