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Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

PeaceCrusader said:
How can be know the authentic ones? First, the spirit of Ama said that they are “octobado”, eight-sided.
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From which it's safe to deduce that the authentic ones (if any such exist) aren't eight-sided, given how completely and utterly wrong "the spirit of Ama" has proved to be about everything else.
 
PeaceCrusader said:
20120904.0605

@MRC Hans, #210

“Pasiong Mahal” states that there was a Saint Denis (also called in ancient time Dionysius) in Paris, France. A Basilica was erected there in his honor which became the burial place for the kings of France. Just think, why the kings of France have to be buried here.

Should the Basilica search for this nail? The book is correct in stating at least two places – Carpentras, France and Milan, Italy. The one in Rome may be a forgery because, first, it is not “octobado” and second, it is not as stated that Saint Helena mixed the nail to make a crown.
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I repeat: And so what?

More clearly:

You are quoting from various literature, none of which is in any way validated or backed by independent information. It is, in other words, at the very best, anecdotical, but in practice indistinguishable from fiction.

I realize that in your personal opinion, this literature contains the truth; you have made this opinion abundantly clear, and you are entitled to it, however, why do you keep using it as arguments? To the rest of us, it remains entirely unauthoritative, and you might as well be arguing from "Moby Dick".

This is a skeptical/scientific forum, and if you want to support your opinions here, you must provide evidence.

Hans
 
PeaceCrusader said:
20120904.0630

@pakeha, #209

Some of the nails claimed to be authentic by different churches may be forgeries. There are only four nails used in nailing the hands and feet of Jesus to the cross. So there could not be more than four.
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I think we have a failure of communication, here.

PeaceCrusader, you are talking to people who don't even necessarily accept that Jesus existed at all, even as a historical person!

IF someone was crucified, there would be maximum four nails, that goes without saying (and many would assume there were only three).

Here, you write:

Some of the nails claimed to be authentic by different churches may be forgeries. There are only four nails used in nailing the hands and feet of Jesus to the cross. So there could not be more than four.
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Since there are about 30 claimed nails form the crucifiction on record, some of them not only may be forgeries, they must necessarily be forgeries. So obviously, since there is no plausible provinience for any of them, it is likely that they all are.

How can be know the authentic ones? First, the spirit of Ama said that they are “octobado”, eight-sided.
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We can't know the authentic ones. Testimony from alleged spirits does not count. There is some historical backing for the notion that such nails may have been octogonal, but we don't even know that with any kind of certainty. Even if it is correct, this knowledge would also have been avialable to forgers, so it means nothing at all.

Hans
 
AdMan said:
Regarding octobado, where does this word come from, PC? Is it Filipino?

I get the "octo" bit, but googling the whole word only yields PC's posts.

What language is it in?
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Octagonal is the proper Spanish for octagonal; 'octobado' sounds like what I would expect an illiterate person to say instead of 'octagonal'.
Not, of course, the Holy Spirit.
 
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Pixel42 said:
From which it's safe to deduce that the authentic ones (if any such exist) aren't eight-sided, given how completely and utterly wrong "the spirit of Ama" has proved to be about everything else.
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I was wondering about all the oddities "the spirit of Ama" has come up with: the nonexistent St Evangeline, the elusive Angelina Imdem and her coffin-ridden home in the UK, the Princess Reneliniyindi and her tragic wedding to Philip I, her parents, the nonexistent Helene Curtis fortune and so on.

It occurred to me there may be a connection between the cosmetics industry and Constantine's mum and I may have found it here.

What do you think?
 
20120905.0045

Here is what the spirit of Ama said on tape E02B from 10:55:
Ama: “Nasarte rasiom” sa kanang paa.
Sa kaliwang paa, ano? No. No. “Salboloray cabaladoc.” “Salboloray cabaladoc.” All right.
Nasaan ngayon ang apat na pakong ito? Nasa Roma, nasa Francia, nasa Milan. Nasaan pa? Ah? At ang isa’y nasaan? Nasaan naroon si ...?
Tagasaan si Santa Elenang tinatawag ninyo? Sa Germany Constantino. Sino si Constantino? Ha?

English translation:
Ama: “Nasarte rasiom” to the right foot.
To the left foot, what? No. No. “Salbolray cabaladoc.” Salboloray cabaladoc.” All right.
Where are the four nails now? In Rome, in France, in Milan. Where else? Ah? Where is the other one? From where is ...?
Where is Saint Helena that you call from? In Germany Constantine. Who is Constantine? Ha?

The names of the nails are: “Nasarte rasiom” – right foot, “Salboloray cabaladoc” – left foot. I cannot remember the names of the other two but I have written them down in my red notebook which I cannot find at the moment.

Where are the nails now? They are in Rome, in France (maybe he is referring to Paris), and in Milan. All these places are mentioned in “Pasiong Mahal”. The other nail is in Karpentas. Maybe this is the old name. Its name now is Carpentras in France.

Saint Helena is from Germany. Maybe Trier.
 
Delete.

PeaceCrusader said:
Where are the nails now? They are in Rome, in France (maybe he is referring to Paris), and in Milan. All these places are mentioned in “Pasiong Mahal”. The other nail is in Karpentas. Maybe this is the old name. Its name now is Carpentras in France.
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So?

PeaceCrusader said:
Saint Helena is from Germany. Maybe Trier.
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Eh, no. Definitely not. Unless you refer to some else than the mother of Constantine the great.
 
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PeaceCrusader said:
The names of the nails are: “Nasarte rasiom” – right foot, “Salboloray cabaladoc” – left foot. I cannot remember the names of the other two but I have written them down in my red notebook
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Who the heck is supposed to have named these nails, and for what purpose?

And do you have any evidence that those names have been used anywhere else and aren't just gibberish made up by the crone?
 
PeaceCrusader said:
Here is what the spirit of Ama said on tape E02B from 10:55:
Ama: “Nasarte rasiom” sa kanang paa.
Sa kaliwang paa, ano? No. No. “Salboloray cabaladoc.” “Salboloray cabaladoc.” All right.
Nasaan ngayon ang apat na pakong ito? Nasa Roma, nasa Francia, nasa Milan. Nasaan pa? Ah? At ang isa’y nasaan? Nasaan naroon si ...?
Tagasaan si Santa Elenang tinatawag ninyo? Sa Germany Constantino. Sino si Constantino? Ha?

English translation:
Ama: “Nasarte rasiom” to the right foot.
To the left foot, what? No. No. “Salbolray cabaladoc.” Salboloray cabaladoc.” All right.
Where are the four nails now? In Rome, in France, in Milan. Where else? Ah? Where is the other one? From where is ...?
Where is Saint Helena that you call from? In Germany Constantine. Who is Constantine? Ha?

The names of the nails are: “Nasarte rasiom” – right foot, “Salboloray cabaladoc” – left foot. I cannot remember the names of the other two but I have written them down in my red notebook which I cannot find at the moment.

Where are the nails now? They are in Rome, in France (maybe he is referring to Paris), and in Milan. All these places are mentioned in “Pasiong Mahal”. The other nail is in Karpentas. Maybe this is the old name. Its name now is Carpentras in France.

Saint Helena is from Germany. Maybe Trier.
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That's quite a remarkable transcription, PC.
It raises a lot of questions with me, though.

To be honest, it really looks as though you 'fish' for answers and Ka Apaz obliges within her limits and with a dash of rudimentary glossolalia to round things off.
Those names for the nails, for example, sound more like glossolalia than real names. I'd be glad to shown I'm wrong, though.

St Helene is from Germany? Are you sure about that?

Just out of curiosity- in these seances, does the spirit of ama ever quote anything but the Pasiong and the KJV?
 
PeaceCrusader said:
20120905.0045

Here is what the spirit of Ama said on tape E02B from 10:55:
Ama: “Nasarte rasiom” sa kanang paa.
Sa kaliwang paa, ano? No. No. “Salboloray cabaladoc.” “Salboloray cabaladoc.” All right.
Nasaan ngayon ang apat na pakong ito? Nasa Roma, nasa Francia, nasa Milan. Nasaan pa? Ah? At ang isa’y nasaan? Nasaan naroon si ...?
Tagasaan si Santa Elenang tinatawag ninyo? Sa Germany Constantino. Sino si Constantino? Ha?

English translation:
Ama: “Nasarte rasiom” to the right foot.
To the left foot, what? No. No. “Salbolray cabaladoc.” Salboloray cabaladoc.” All right.
Where are the four nails now? In Rome, in France, in Milan. Where else? Ah? Where is the other one? From where is ...?
Where is Saint Helena that you call from? In Germany Constantine. Who is Constantine? Ha?

The names of the nails are: “Nasarte rasiom” – right foot, “Salboloray cabaladoc” – left foot. I cannot remember the names of the other two but I have written them down in my red notebook which I cannot find at the moment.

Where are the nails now? They are in Rome, in France (maybe he is referring to Paris), and in Milan. All these places are mentioned in “Pasiong Mahal”. The other nail is in Karpentas. Maybe this is the old name. Its name now is Carpentras in France.

Saint Helena is from Germany. Maybe Trier.
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A round of Dom for all!
 
And another to celebrate how right you were.
Have you thought of trying for the million dollar challenge?
 
AvalonXQ said:
Is there any special interaction between the Nails of Destiny and explicitly evil artifacts, such as the Hand of Vecna or Sceptre of Asmodeus? Or is that left to DM discretion?
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Well, the alleged nails appear to be at least +5 versus demigods. Funny how the nails are still kicking around in religious shrines while there's no physical trace of the individual who was allegedly slain by them.

On a related matter, it would be interesting to run a DNA analysis on these artifacts. Hypothetically there should be traces of hemoglobin, and that hemoglobin should be identical from nail to nail. Who knows? Maybe we could even clone ourselves a brand new Jesus. ;)
 
Astreja said:
On a related matter, it would be interesting to run a DNA analysis on these artifacts. Hypothetically there should be traces of hemoglobin, and that hemoglobin should be identical from nail to nail. Who knows? Maybe we could even clone ourselves a brand new Jesus. ;)
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Been thought of already by a bunch of pranksters called "Christians for the Cloning of Jesus". See http://sniggle.net/godhoax.php. They propose the "blood" from the Turin Shroud as DNA source. But surely some transubstantiated communion wine would do equally well.
 
Craig B said:
Been thought of already by a bunch of pranksters called "Christians for the Cloning of Jesus". See http://sniggle.net/godhoax.php. They propose the "blood" from the Turin Shroud as DNA source. But surely some transubstantiated communion wine would do equally well.
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Thanks for the link, it was new to me and I love new links almost as much as I love passion fruit, or maracuyá.

It comes from the Passion flower:
The "Passion" in "passion flower" refers to the passion of Jesus in Christian theology. In the 15th and 16th centuries, Spanish Christian missionaries adopted the unique physical structures of this plant, particularly the numbers of its various flower parts, as symbols of the last days of Jesus and especially his crucifixion:
Blue Passion Flower (P. caerulea) showing most elements of the Christian symbolism

The pointed tips of the leaves were taken to represent the Holy Lance.
The tendrils represent the whips used in the flagellation of Christ.
The ten petals and sepals represent the ten faithful apostles (excluding St. Peter the denier and Judas Iscariot the betrayer).
The flower's radial filaments, which can number more than a hundred and vary from flower to flower, represent the crown of thorns.
The chalice-shaped ovary with its receptacle represents a hammer or the Holy Grail
The 3 stigmas represent the 3 nails and the 5 anthers below them the 5 wounds (four by the nails and one by the lance).
The blue and white colors of many species' flowers represent Heaven and Purity.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passiflora

I never eat passion fruit Pavlova without thinking of this thread!
 
pakeha said:
And another to celebrate how right you were.
Have you thought of trying for the million dollar challenge?
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I'd love to, but predicting PC's modus operandi is so easy that I should apply for the 25 cent challenge instead.
 
AdMan said:
Who the heck is supposed to have named these nails, and for what purpose?

And do you have any evidence that those names have been used anywhere else and aren't just gibberish made up by the crone?
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20120905.2050

@AdMan, #228

Who named the nails? Maybe the spirit of Ama. I do not know. What is the purpose of naming them? I also do not know.

Here are the names of the other two nails from tape K15B: “Prepram Anacnom” and “Sumaclorde”. I am not sure if it is a “c” or a “k”. “Nasarte Rasiom” maybe “Nasarte Rasion” and “Salboloray Cabaladoc” maybe “Sabuluray Cabaladoc”. These are how I hear them in tape K15B.

I will upload the original Filipino text in http://aristean.org/pahayagxxx.htm (where xxx will be a number from 080 to 082) and just put the translation here.
 
Craig B said:
They grow in abundance here in Italy. The flowers are the most astonishing things. They look artificial. Tasty fruit too.
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20120905.2120

@Craig B, #237

Where in Italy do you live? Are you near Rome or Milan? When you go to these places, could you please tell us about the relic that they keep, especially the nails and the Iron Crown of Lombardy in Monza (near Milan)?
 
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