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Could someone explain the birds & the bees to the GOP?

Ziggurat said:
Not a fake rape where the woman only later claims that consensual sex was rape.

Do you think that never happens? Because it does.
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Are you being serious?

Would fake rape also include women who "were asking for it" and intoxicated sluts?
 
Tricky said:
Um... tell me, what is "Honest rape"?
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I never used the term, but I can guess. Rule of thumb: whatever makes a jury render a verdict in 10 minutes or less. Forcible rape and statutory rape where informed consent is impossible would qualify. Sex with drug-induced consent or stupor qualify in some cases unambiguously (e.g., Roman Polanski, Andrew Luster). Grey areas include alcohol-influenced consent when both parties are adults. How drunk is drunk enough that consent was not possible? Is it rape if a soldier is transferred with his fiancee from a State where she's old enough to consent to to a State where she isn't? What if "I met her in a bar. She looked 21 and I couldn't tell that ID was fake and neither could the bartender"?
 
And does it that change the initial statement that "you can't get pregnant from 'legitimate' rape"?

The premise is simply wrong. That there have been and will continue to be false accusations of crime doesn't make the premise even close to being right.
 
Travis said:
And why is it important?
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Because many people seem to think that it is. Including abortion rights supporters.

Should we just start stoning all women who report rape just in case it really was consensual sex?
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That's a non-sequitor.

But since you're obviously having problems wrapping your head around the issue, let me explain a few things to you. Quite a number of people on the pro-choice side have advanced the position that outlawing abortion even in the case of rape is worse than outlawing abortion except in the case of rape. So for them, whether or not the woman was raped matters. But obviously that's got to refer to actual rapes, not false claims of rape, or else the position becomes completely incoherent. You can blame Ron Paul all you like for that, but just check out this thread and you'll see that the issue isn't simply something Republicans dreamed up. Quite a few abortion rights supporters have been pushing the idea hard.
 
Ziggurat said:
Not a fake rape where the woman only later claims that consensual sex was rape.

Do you think that never happens? Because it does.
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So Ron knows by looking at a woman if the rape was "real"? Or does the ER doctor ask, "Were you really raped?"

Even acknowledging that some women sometimes lie, Ron is still an idiot, unless he's invented a "real rape" detector. What it sounds like to me is that Ron another rectal sphincter who wants to suggest that women are all sluts.
 
Border Reiver said:
And does it that change the initial statement that "you can't get pregnant from 'legitimate' rape"?
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I think you're confusing two different issues. Akin made the comment about "legitimate rape", and his comment was not only offensive to many people, it was factually wrong, without any basis whatsoever.

But the "honest rape" comment was from Ron Paul, not Akin. Despite the similarity of that one phrase, the contents of their comments were actually very different. Not only was Ron Paul explicitly acknowledging that rape can lead to pregnancy, he was also advocating taking medical measures to prevent that from happening. Tricky has claimed that Paul's statements represent similar "loony" ideas to Akin's, but he hasn't actually explained why.
 
Border Reiver said:
And does it that change the initial statement that "you can't get pregnant from 'legitimate' rape"?

The premise is simply wrong. That there have been and will continue to be false accusations of crime doesn't make the premise even close to being right.
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Is anyone arguing the contrary? Tricky requested a definition of "honest rape".
 
Tricky said:
So Ron knows by looking at a woman if the rape was "real"? Or does the ER doctor ask, "Were you really raped?"
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Did he say either of those two things?

No, he did not.

Read his comments again, because you clearly haven't grasped what he's saying. If you still can't figure it out, come back and ask, but at least put in a little effort first.
 
And does it that change the initial statement that "you can't get pregnant from 'legitimate' rape"?

The premise is simply wrong. That there have been and will continue to be false accusations of crime doesn't make the premise even close to being right.
 
Border Reiver said:
And does it that change the initial statement that "you can't get pregnant from 'legitimate' rape"?
The premise is simply wrong. That there have been and will continue to be false accusations of crime doesn't make the premise even close to being right.
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Who is arguing the contrary? Perhaps we could start a thread where people defend the proposition that 2+2 = 4 and sugar is sweet.
 
Ziggurat said:
About what? That women have faked claims of rape? Yes, I'm serious. Do you think it doesn't happen?
.
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Well I am so glad that you and GOP are tackling the true rape issue in america. Namely that some girls have lied about it. Way to tackle the tough issues.:rolleyes:
 
Ziggurat said:
Not a fake rape where the woman only later claims that consensual sex was rape.

Do you think that never happens? Because it does.
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I won't say it never happens, but it happens far, far less often than women who were actually raped get accused of it. In general, those who will make that claim about women either don't understand that, or have thoughts of getting away with it themselves someday.

ETA: My wife, who has worked with sexual abuse victims, says that the number of women who falsely claim rape is ALSO much smaller than the number of women who get raped and never report it for fear of being accused of that.
 
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There are categories of rape but those categories should not be broken down to further victimize the victim.

If someone is lieing about rape it is not fake rape it is not rape period. It's a lie and a false accusation.
 
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Biscuit said:
Well I am so glad that you and GOP are tackling the true rape issue in america. Namely that some girls have lied about it. Way to tackle the tough issues.:rolleyes:
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Your snark merely amuses me, given how far removed it is from the original complaint.
 
Biscuit said:
Well I am so glad that you and GOP are tackling the true rape issue in america. Namely that some girls have lied about it. Way to tackle the tough issues.:rolleyes:
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Good point. Let's abandon this thread (who started this conversation here, anyway?) and discuss Federal economic policy.
 
Ziggurat said:
Your snark merely amuses me, given how far removed it is from the original complaint.
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You know what's not amusing? That there are people in America with so little concern for pregnant rape victims, People like Paul and Akins.
 
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So.....we don't care about the guy who thinks heterosexuals can't get HIV or AIDS?
 
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