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Julian Assange: rapist or not?

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Neither of the women has accused Assange of raping them. The Swedish state is his accuser.
what?!? They accused him of actions that are considered rape under both Swedish and UK law. Your splitting hairs here is both useless and insulting!




How is it possible for either of us to know one way or the other, particularly as you haven't even bothered to reference your smear?
Smear? That's a quote from PBS Frontline. Go do some googling on the quotes and find out who was in the room, what their backgrounds are, and decide who is more likely to be telling the truth. Your pathetic argument that because I haven't referenced with a link this is a smear is telling.

As if you don't already know about that! Goodbye
 

Two: “Assange is more likely to be extradited to USA from Sweden than the United Kingdom”
This is similarly untrue. Any extradition from Sweden to the United States would actually be more difficult. This is because it would require the consent of both Sweden and the United Kingdom.

One can add that there is no evidence whatsoever that the United Kingdom would not swiftly comply with any extradition request from the United States; quite the reverse. Ask Gary McKinnon, or Richard O'Dwyer, or the NatWest Three.

In reality, the best opportunity for the United States to extradite Assange is whilst he is in the United Kingdom.
​

The bolded section is exactly why the United States would not want to extradite him directly from the United Kingdom. I briefly touched upon McKinnon's case, one the United States would like to avoid if they wanted (almost) immediate access to Assange. It's possible that an extradition request to the UK for him would turn into another decade long appeals process.

British consent merely allows the Swedish judicial system to exercise their best judgment in whether fulfill a request from the United States to extradite Assange. This, in essence, shifts the judicial responsibility over to the KoS, rather than the UK, who can (theoretically) wipe their hands clean of events occurring afterwards.

I would like to know what Allen thinks of the "Temporary Surrender" clauses, per Article IV of 14 UST 1845 TIAS 10812, and Article(9) from the "Handbook on the practical application of the EU-U.S. Mutual Legal Assistance and Extradition Agreements".
 
But, let's put that aside, because it is not really important as to establishing the facts in question, which are whether Wikileaks actually put people's lives at risk. Again I'm going to ask you whether you have any proof that they did? I don't count the opinion of Julian Assange (whether he expressed it or not) as any kind of proof.

Ok, I've had a look, and as some other posts here have indicated, it appears wikileaks may not have leaked anything not already known. It's value may have been in providing a one-stop-shop, in much the same way as a search engine.

Anyway, has anyone provided referenced evidence that the US does want to extradite JA via Sweden?
 
Anyway, has anyone provided referenced evidence that the US does want to extradite JA via Sweden?

Other than the leaked email purportedly from a US gov't source in which they say they have a sealed indictment against Assange, no direct evidence. Still seems a likely enough possibility that the Australian diplos are getting ready for it (jic).

As for Assange being a crazy narcissistic paranoiac... after what happened to Manning I can't blame him for being worried... doesn't sound like a very fun time!
 
Other than the leaked email purportedly from a US gov't source in which they say they have a sealed indictment against Assange, no direct evidence. Still seems a likely enough possibility that the Australian diplos are getting ready for it (jic).

As for Assange being a crazy narcissistic paranoiac... after what happened to Manning I can't blame him for being worried... doesn't sound like a very fun time!

Manning's a US citizen, and an oath sworn soldier to boot. Different people, different circumstances.

Do you think the two women who were allegedly raped by Assange are entitled to justice?

Do you think that Assange should be priviliged by judiciary systems?

Do you think that Assange should be above the law?
 
Manning's a US citizen, and an oath sworn soldier to boot. Different people, different circumstances.

haha

America's doing all sorts of fun stuff to its enemies of various stripes and all types in the GWOT.

Do you think the two women who were allegedly raped by Assange are entitled to justice?

Do you think that Assange should be priviliged by judiciary systems?

Do you think that Assange should be above the law?

I dunno man. Egslim had some pretty interesting posts to launch this thread.
 
what?!? They accused him of actions that are considered rape under both Swedish and UK law. Your splitting hairs here is both useless and insulting!

Neither women wanted Assange charged with rape and were shocked when the police announced that they were going to do so. Does this mean they were insulting themselves? One refused to sign a statement she had made to the police because of this.


Smear? That's a quote from PBS Frontline. Go do some googling on the quotes and find out who was in the room, what their backgrounds are, and decide who is more likely to be telling the truth. Your pathetic argument that because I haven't referenced with a link this is a smear is telling.

The two points were not related.

As if you don't already know about that! Goodbye

See Captain.Sassy's post


______________________

'Something Rotten in the State of Sweden: 8 Big Problems with the ‘Case’ Against Assange'

by Naomi Wolf

Now that Andrew Kreig, of the Justice Integrity Project, has confirmed Karl Rove’s role as an advisor to the Swedish government in its prosecution of Julian Assange on sexual misconduct charges, it is important that we note the many glaring aberrations in the handling of Assange’s case by the authorities in Sweden.

Dr. Brian Palmer, a social anthropologist at Uppsala University, explained on Kreig’s radio show last month that Karl Rove has been working directly as an advisor to the governing Moderate Party. Kreig also reported, in Connecticut Watchdog, that the Assange accusers’ lawyer is a partner in the law firm Borgström and Bodström, whose other name partner, Thomas Bodström, is a former Swedish Minister of Justice. In that office, Bodström helped approve a 2001 CIA rendition request to Sweden, to allow the CIA to fly two asylum-seekers from Sweden to Egypt, where they were tortured. This background compels us to review the case against Assange with extreme care.

Based on my 23 years of reporting on global rape law, and my five years of supporting women at rape crisis centers and battered women’s shelters, I can say with certainty that this case is not being treated as a normal rape or sexual assault case. New details from the Swedish police make this quite clear. Their transcript of the complaints against Assange is strikingly unlike the dozens of such transcripts that I have read throughout the years as an advocate for victims of sex crimes.

Specifically, there are eight ways in which this transcript is unusual:

1) Police never pursue complaints in which there is no indication of lack of consent.

2) Police do not let two women report an accusation about one man together.

3) Police never take testimony from former boyfriends.

4) Prosecutors never let two alleged victims have the same lawyer.

5) A lawyer never typically takes on two alleged rape victims as clients.

6) A rape victim never uses a corporate attorney.

7) A rape victim is never encouraged to make any kind of contact with her assailant and she may never use police to compel her alleged assailant to take medical tests.

8) Police and prosecutors never leak police transcripts during an active investigation because they face punishment for doing so.


See article for details.

[My bold - JJ]
 
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Neither women wanted Assange charged with rape and were shocked when the police announced that they were going to do so. Does this mean they were insulting themselves? One refused to sign a statement she had made to the police because of this.

It's irrelevant what the two defendants want. What is relevant is the law.



The two points were not related.

Could you justify your smear of the NY Times and PBS Frontline, please?
 
As for Assange being a crazy narcissistic paranoiac... after what happened to Manning I can't blame him for being worried... doesn't sound like a very fun time!

Has it occurred to you that you may not be making a great deal of sense?

Hint: "being a crazy narcissistic paranoiac" is unlike "being worried".

Question: In your opinion, do punks have any understanding of the concept of cause and effect? More specifically, do you think Assange was blissfully unaware of the position he had placed his pawn Manning in, until Manning was arrested and charged, at which point it suddenly dawned upon The Great Narcissistic One that He, Himself, might conceivably have a problem, at which point he belatedly panicked?

Are they really that slow upstairs, do ya think?

Hint #2: the time to feel trepidation is when you first begin to contemplate stabbing a superpower (and numerous other countries) in the back with a little knife that won't cripple them but will piss them off severely.
 
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Has it occurred to you that you may not be making a great deal of sense?

Hint: "being a crazy narcissistic paranoiac" is unlike "being worried".

Chill bro. Other people were calling him paranoid etc. and saying it was on the same spectrum as narcissism etc. I'm just saying that given what they did to Manning, I'd be extra careful if I were Assange too i.e. I'd err on the side of caution.*

Question: In your opinion, do punks have any understanding of the concept of cause and effect?

pussy riot thread is here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240956



More specifically, do you think Assange was blissfully unaware of the position he had placed his pawn Manning in, until Manning was arrested and charged, at which point it suddenly dawned upon The Great Narcissistic One that He, Himself, might conceivably have a problem, at which point he belatedly panicked?

Are they really that slow upstairs, do ya think?

dunno what you're saying here compadre. Are you saying Assange deliberately set up Manning to be caught? Didn't take adequate steps to protect him? What should Assange have done?


Hint #2: the time to feel trepidation is when you first begin to contemplate stabbing a superpower (and numerous other countries) in the back with a little knife that won't cripple them but will piss them off severely.

DAMN! I actually got inb4'd b4 my inb4 could work... shucks.


*[inb4 some star spangled freedom eagle says 'well then he shouldn't have treasoned america']
 
lol your post sounds like something a petulant yet precocious four-year-old might have written


http://www.wikileaks.org/IMG/pdf/Statement_by_John_Goetz.pdf

Signed statement from one of 'the others'.

Key line: "I told him that Julian did not say that"
you're right! The two der speigel guys don't remeber that from that meeting, I knew this and misremembered. There was two other people that had talked to Assange when he was refusing to remove the names. The three I know of who have said that Julian didn't care are Declan Walsh, Nick Davies and David Leigh. I believe Leigh anyway.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=zJr...n+Walsh+assange+"informants"&output=html_text

Hope that link works, starting page 110 from Wikileaks: Inside Julain Assange's war

See, you already knew and asked me a snotty question :)
 
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Chill bro. Other people were calling him paranoid etc. and saying it was on the same spectrum as narcissism etc. I'm just saying that given what they did to Manning, I'd be extra careful if I were Assange too i.e. I'd err on the side of caution.*

pussy riot thread is here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240956

dunno what you're saying here compadre. Are you saying Assange deliberately set up Manning to be caught? Didn't take adequate steps to protect him? What should Assange have done?

DAMN! I actually got inb4'd b4 my inb4 could work... shucks.

*[inb4 some star spangled freedom eagle says 'well then he shouldn't have treasoned america']

Nevermind. Figured you'd respond with nonsense. I was just using you.:cool:
 
you're right! The two der speigel guys don't remeber that from that meeting, I knew this and misremembered. There was two other people that had talked to Assange when he was refusing to remove the names. The three I know of who have said that Julian didn't care are Declan Walsh, Nick Davies and David Leigh. I believe Declan anyway.


Quote in question had to do with 'collaborators should die' etc.

Added 'doesn't get it' bonus points:

You source a book written by the person whose allegation is contested.

lol.
 
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