FBI 9/11 Investigations

[Spanx]

It's a shame they didn't, have enough time to find them.

Please excuse the copy paste

The FBI contacted Marriott on August 30, requesting that they check guest records, and on September 5, they reported that no Marriott hotels had any record of Mihdhar checking in.[50] The day before the attacks, the New York office requested that the Los Angeles FBI office check all local Sheraton Hotels,[50] as well as Lufthansa and United Airlines bookings, because those were the two airlines Mihdhar had used to enter the country.[51] Neither the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network nor the FBI's Financial Review Group, which have access to credit card and other private financial records, were notified about Mihdhar prior to September 11.[36]
Regarding the CIA's refusal to inform the FBI about Mihdhar and Hazmi, author Lawrence Wright suggests the CIA wanted to protect its turf and was concerned about giving sensitive intelligence to FBI Agent John P. O'Neill, who Alec Station chief Michael Scheuer described as duplicitous. Wright also speculates that the CIA may have been protecting intelligence operations overseas, and might have been eying Mihdhar and Hazmi as recruitment targets to obtain intelligence on al-Qaeda, although the CIA was not authorized to operate in the United States and might have been leaving them for Saudi intelligence to recruit.[16][53]

 

[thatsmystory]

It's a shame they didn't, have enough time to find them.

Please excuse the copy paste

The FBI contacted Marriott on August 30, requesting that they check guest records, and on September 5, they reported that no Marriott hotels had any record of Mihdhar checking in.[50] The day before the attacks, the New York office requested that the Los Angeles FBI office check all local Sheraton Hotels,[50] as well as Lufthansa and United Airlines bookings, because those were the two airlines Mihdhar had used to enter the country.[51] Neither the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network nor the FBI's Financial Review Group, which have access to credit card and other private financial records, were notified about Mihdhar prior to September 11.[36]
Regarding the CIA's refusal to inform the FBI about Mihdhar and Hazmi, author Lawrence Wright suggests the CIA wanted to protect its turf and was concerned about giving sensitive intelligence to FBI Agent John P. O'Neill, who Alec Station chief Michael Scheuer described as duplicitous. Wright also speculates that the CIA may have been protecting intelligence operations overseas, and might have been eying Mihdhar and Hazmi as recruitment targets to obtain intelligence on al-Qaeda, although the CIA was not authorized to operate in the United States and might have been leaving them for Saudi intelligence to recruit.[16][53]

The FBI UBLU unit knew and intentionally made up excuses to keep the Cole investigators out of the loop. Evidently the public is asking too much to expect anyone from this unit to come forward and explain who told them to obstruct an active al Qaeda investigation.

The question that has never been answered by anyone at Alec Station or the UBLU is why the al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar criminal investigation was obstructed. Why is there a need for so much secrecy about this conduct?

In regard to the no fly list before 9/11:

Claudio Manno headed the FAA Intelligence Division in the lead up to 9/11. Here is his testimony during the Joint Inquiry Commission:

Senator WYDEN. With respect to al Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, did your agency have the names of those two hijackers prior to September 11, 2001?

Mr. MANNO. No, we did not.

Senator WYDEN. If you had, what steps would have been taken, had you had that information?

Mr. MANNO. Well, prior to 9/11, we had a process, we had a socalled watch list which was disseminated to the industry via the security directive process. In fact, a number of the people that we suspected were involved in what we call the Manila plot, the Bojinko plot, as you referred to it, were on that list. Again, what we would—the purpose of that process was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation who should either be denied boarding or should be, if they showed up for the boarding, called to the attention of law enforcement. Had we had information that those two individuals presented a threat to aviation or posed a great danger, we would have put them on that list, and they should have been picked up in the reservation process.

Claudio Manno testimony

 

[paloalto]

It's a shame they didn't, have enough time to find them.

Please excuse the copy paste

The FBI contacted Marriott on August 30, requesting that they check guest records, and on September 5, they reported that no Marriott hotels had any record of Mihdhar checking in.[50] The day before the attacks, the New York office requested that the Los Angeles FBI office check all local Sheraton Hotels,[50] as well as Lufthansa and United Airlines bookings, because those were the two airlines Mihdhar had used to enter the country.[51] Neither the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network nor the FBI's Financial Review Group, which have access to credit card and other private financial records, were notified about Mihdhar prior to September 11.[36]
Regarding the CIA's refusal to inform the FBI about Mihdhar and Hazmi, author Lawrence Wright suggests the CIA wanted to protect its turf and was concerned about giving sensitive intelligence to FBI Agent John P. O'Neill, who Alec Station chief Michael Scheuer described as duplicitous. Wright also speculates that the CIA may have been protecting intelligence operations overseas, and might have been eying Mihdhar and Hazmi as recruitment targets to obtain intelligence on al-Qaeda, although the CIA was not authorized to operate in the United States and might have been leaving them for Saudi intelligence to recruit.[16][53]

Thanks for this information. But with all due respect, is Lawrence Wright suggesting that the CIA allowed Mihdhar and Hazmi to take part in al Qaeda terrorists attacks inside of the US and kill almost 3000 people in order to prevent giving sensitive intelligence to FBI Agent John P. O'Neill, or to recruit Mihdhar and Hazmi. This does not seem to make any sense, and also does not explain why even the FBI HQ kept this same information on Mihdhar and Hazmi secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators. Was FBI HQ trying to keep this information from their own FBI field agents, in order to keep sensitive intelligence from FBI Agent John P. O'Neill or trying to recruit Mihdhar and Hazmi?

I think Wright may have had no idea on why the CIA and FBI HQ hid this information from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, and just threw this out as wild unsupported speculation.

Every point I tried to make I tried to back up with a US official government document or report.

Wright cannot explain why FBI Director Louis Freeh hid the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi and the meeting in Kuala Lumpur from his own FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing. While his book, Looming Tower, was the very first to describe FBI Agent Ali Soufan’s request to Freeh, in November 2000, to make a official FBI request to the CIA for any information the CIA had on any al Qaeda planning meeting in southeast Asia in January 2000, and on Walid bin Attash. According to Wright, Freeh told Soufan that the CIA had none of this information.

But according to page 181 of the 9/11 Commission report and page 238/239 of the DOJ IG report, Freeh had gotten much of this information from the CIA in January 2000 and from the NSA in December 1999. Wright never went beyond describing Soufan’s request and Freeh’s answer. Since the 9/11 Commission report came out in June 2004, two years before his book, and the DOJ IG report in November 2004 he had plenty of time to research this and have this information in his book.

In spite of Looming Tower winning a Pulitzer prize, Wright must never have read the 9/11 Commission report, and never read the DOJ IG report. But it is almost inconceivable that he had not read these reports. Had he done this, his book could have taken on a whole new level of importance.

 

[paloalto]

The FBI UBLU unit knew and intentionally made up excuses to keep the Cole investigators out of the loop. Evidently the public is asking too much to expect anyone from this unit to come forward and explain who told them to obstruct an active al Qaeda investigation.

The question that has never been answered by anyone at Alec Station or the UBLU is why the al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar criminal investigation was obstructed. Why is there a need for so much secrecy about this conduct?

In regard to the no fly list before 9/11:

Claudio Manno headed the FAA Intelligence Division in the lead up to 9/11. Here is his testimony during the Joint Inquiry Commission:

"Senator WYDEN. With respect to al Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, did your agency have the names of those two hijackers prior to September 11, 2001?

Mr. MANNO. No, we did not.

Senator WYDEN. If you had, what steps would have been taken, had you had that information?

Mr. MANNO. Well, prior to 9/11, we had a process, we had a socalled watch list which was disseminated to the industry via the security directive process. In fact, a number of the people that we suspected were involved in what we call the Manila plot, the Bojinko plot, as you referred to it, were on that list. Again, what we would—the purpose of that process was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation who should either be denied boarding or should be, if they showed up for the boarding, called to the attention of law enforcement. Had we had information that those two individuals presented a threat to aviation or posed a great danger, we would have put them on that list, and they should have been picked up in the reservation process."



thatsmystory, Thanks for your information on the FAA and their no fly list.

 

[Spanx]

Hey Paloalto,
On 25th July 2000 Concorde crashed killing everyone on board. I know that the accident was caused by debris on the runway puncturing the fuel tank.

Why didn't they remove the debris. And why is no one taking action against the airport authority.

Sounds stupid ehh

Now tell me what the difference is with what your saying.

 

[paloalto]

Hey Paloalto,
On 25th July 2000 Concorde crashed killing everyone on board. I know that the accident was caused by debris on the runway puncturing the fuel tank.

Why didn't they remove the debris. And why is no one taking action against the airport authority.

Sounds stupid ehh

Now tell me what the difference is with what your saying.

This was just a pure accident. Perhaps the airport was negligent in not inspecting the runway prior to the take off of the Concorde. Given the enormous air pressures in the tires this should have been standard practice before every take off. Two or three trucks just driving down the run way looking for debris just prior to the take off should have been enough.

This just was never done.

 

[Spanx]

This was just a pure accident. Perhaps the airport was negligent in not inspecting the runway prior to the take off of the Concorde. Given the enormous air pressures in the tires this should have been standard practice before every take off. Two or three trucks just driving down the run way looking for debris just prior to the take off should have been enough.

This just was never done.

I think your missing my point. They didn't know the debris was there and had never had the problem before.

Anyway I'm not really getting where your coming from and what your goal is.

What are you trying to achieve in supplying us with this information. Is it to coincide with a book or something ?

 

[beachnut]

This was just a pure accident. Perhaps the airport was negligent in not inspecting the runway prior to the take off of the Concorde. Given the enormous air pressures in the tires this should have been standard practice before every take off. Two or three trucks just driving down the run way looking for debris just prior to the take off should have been enough.

This just was never done.

911 was even tougher to predict, because it was planned. Accidents are not planned, unless you know for sure no one planted the debris.

Oh, now you want to back in runway checks before flight?
Oh, now you want to ban all knives on flights?

Hindsight. You make up crazy conclusions, all based on failed opinion and faulty analysis. You like Witch-Hunts.

 

[Reactor drone]

Good question.

The pilots could have been charged with being part of a al Qaeda criminal conspiracy to carry out terrorists attacks inside of the US. The German government had evidence that they had been recruited by al Qaeda in Germany, by Mohammed Zammer, a al Qaeda recruiter. The fact they all had training on large commercial airliner simulators, several on B767/757 simulators would have been additional evidence they were connected to a plot to hijack the airliners they were on.

Had they been picked up before 9/11 they would never have hijacked an airliner. You might think that the training was intended to allow them to hijack a plane but historcally hijackers didn't take control of aircraft directly, they just coerced crews with threats so that wouldn't be an immediated red flag. None of the other flights that they'd taken had been hijacked by them so the only way you'd have direct evidence against them would be if some of the attacks still took place while they were in custody.

 

[Robrob]

It was the charter of the CIA to prevent another Pearl Harbor,

Lie.

and the FBI argued many times for an increase in their budget so they would have the funds necessary to prevent a terrorist attack inside of the US.

So? There was common knowledge terrorists wanted to attack the US. The FBI has a budget. This means, what?

Both of this agencies were in effect chartered to stop a terrorists attack before it took place, you might say a terrorist attack in the future.

Lie.

This was just a pure accident. Perhaps the airport was negligent in not inspecting the runway prior to the take off of the Concorde. Given the enormous air pressures in the tires this should have been standard practice before every take off. Two or three trucks just driving down the run way looking for debris just prior to the take off should have been enough.

This just was never done.

And the direct parralel to your argumnet about FBI/CIA "criminal acts" just went right over your head didn't it!?

You might think that the training was intended to allow them to hijack a plane but historcally hijackers didn't take control of aircraft directly, they just coerced crews with threats so that wouldn't be an immediated red flag.

Yep. Their plan was to take advantage of the hijacking paradigm of the time. They used weapons undetectable to the technology of the time and/or legal to have on the plane. They used psychology in their manipulation of the passengers and crew. They used compartmentalization to segregate information even within their own teams on a "need to know" basis.

All that and their plan ceased to be functional by the fourth hijacking.

 

[paloalto]

I think you’re missing my point. They didn't know the debris was there and had never had the problem before.

Anyway I'm not really getting where your coming from and what your goal is.

What are you trying to achieve in supplying us with this information. Is it to coincide with a book or something ?

I originally researched this question of why the CIA and FBI HQ had not given the information they had on Mihdhar and Hazmi for almost 21 months when I thought this question had not been adequately answered for the American people. This was the question pursued by both the Joint Inquiry Committee and the 9/11 Commission, without any results,. The Joint Inquiry Committee and the 9/11 Commission had both been trying to answer this exact same question, because this was the information that had it been given to the FBI in time, would have prevented the attacks on 9/11.


Tenet stated at the 9/11 Commission public hearings that the reasons this information was never given to the FBI Cole bombing investigators until after the attacks on 9/11 was “that mistakes were made”.

That was it, no further explanation.

I thought there might be more to this story than what was presented to the American people and looked into it in great detail. It turns out that the entire account of why the CIA and FBI HQ hid the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting with Walid bin Attash actually planning the Cole bombing is well documented in the official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. The whole story is however not together in any single one report. They have to be aggregated to see the entire picture. Each report had left out important details so no one could read any one report and see the whole picture.

After seeing many questions concerning this same area in this forum, I posted information I had found, in this blog, so other people could see what I had found out with respect to the attacks on 9/11 and why they were allowed to take place.

I can see why some people might be disturbed by this information. I was shocked at first when I put this story together myself, but it is what it is. It shows that a number of people at the huge intelligence agencies had allowed these attacks on 9/11 to take place. Not many but enough to have been able to hide the information that the CIA had, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at Kuala Lumpur.

Some of these people then shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s investigation of these two al Qaeda terrorists when they were found to be inside of the US. These actions were taken when both the CIA and FBI HQ knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. Even today there is no official explanation of the actions that were taken at the CIA and FBI HQ to allow the attacks on 9/11 to take place, and no single report from any of the investigations of 9/11 has put this account back together again in one place.

 

[aggle-rithm]

I originally researched this question of why the CIA and FBI HQ had not given the information they had on Mihdhar and Hazmi for almost 21 months when I thought this question had not been adequately answered for the American people. This was the question pursued by both the Joint Inquiry Committee and the 9/11 Commission, without any results,. The Joint Inquiry Committee and the 9/11 Commission had both been trying to answer this exact same question, because this was the information that had it been given to the FBI in time, would have prevented the attacks on 9/11.


Tenet stated at the 9/11 Commission public hearings that the reasons this information was never given to the FBI Cole bombing investigators until after the attacks on 9/11 was “that mistakes were made”.

That was it, no further explanation.

I thought there might be more to this story than what was presented to the American people and looked into it in great detail. It turns out that the entire account of why the CIA and FBI HQ hid the information that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting with Walid bin Attash actually planning the Cole bombing is well documented in the official US government reports from the investigations on 9/11. The whole story is however not together in any single one report. They have to be aggregated to see the entire picture. Each report had left out important details so no one could read any one report and see the whole picture.

After seeing many questions concerning this same area in this forum, I posted information I had found, in this blog, so other people could see what I had found out with respect to the attacks on 9/11 and why they were allowed to take place.

I can see why some people might be disturbed by this information. I was shocked at first when I put this story together myself, but it is what it is. It shows that a number of people at the huge intelligence agencies had allowed these attacks on 9/11 to take place. Not many but enough to have been able to hide the information that the CIA had, that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing at Kuala Lumpur.

Some of these people then shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s investigation of these two al Qaeda terrorists when they were found to be inside of the US. These actions were taken when both the CIA and FBI HQ knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US. Even today there is no official explanation of the actions that were taken at the CIA and FBI HQ to allow the attacks on 9/11 to take place, and no single report from any of the investigations of 9/11 has put this account back together again in one place.

I might buy it if information overload in bloated federal administrations weren't such a compelling explanation.

 

[carlitos]

Who's defending who, from what?

The only one that can be accused of sheltering (whoever) is you. Why do you refuse to bring this to the proper authorities? We're not stopping you.

Can you explain your inaction? Do you think we are the right "authority" to bring this to?

Until you go to the IG and get indictments based on your assertions, you're just running your mouth with this ****.

Then you know where to bring your case file.

Have at it and report back.

Let us know how it goes.

Repost for paloalto:



We're waiting.

Secondly, paloalto, you keep posting these walls of text, claiming you have evidence of injustice.

What do you want us to do about it?

I see that Myriad beat me to the key point but let's follow through a bit:
(BTW paloalto you have quote mined BUT there is enough to work with for now.)
Elements of proof:
1) Identify 'Whoever'
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
2) What is the relevant 'record, document, or tangible object'?
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
3) What action do you allege was taken 'alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry' - you will have to be specific as to which. AND, as Myriad has said, 'omission' is not an offence.
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
4) What is the 'matter'?
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
5) What is your proof of 'intent'? To the standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt' - the same standard for all these elements of proof.
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
6) How did the act of the accused 'impede, obstruct, or influence the....'
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
7) Demonstrate 'within the jurisdiction of' any department or agency
Don't go a step further until you satisfy this element of proof.
8) Identify which 'department or agency'.

Those will do for starters.

I haven't asked him. Have you?

I was going to add "that's nice, what are you going to do about it?" to the chorus, but then I read:

The short answer is "Not my yob!"

So copy-pasting on internet forums really is the end game. Ok, then. Mission Accomplished. Congrats.

 

[Spanx]

So had the FBI known the whereabouts of Mihdhar and Hazmi in sept 01 and they captured them. 3000 lives would have been saved.

OR

Had they captured Mihdhar and Hazmi, the pentagon would not have been hit.

 

[A W Smith]

This thread needs this.

CIA Realizes It's Been Using Black Highlighters All These Years!!

http://www.theonion.com/articles/cia-realizes-its-been-using-black-highlighters-all,1848/

 

[paloalto]

So had the FBI known the whereabouts of Mihdhar and Hazmi in sept 01 and they captured them. 3000 lives would have been saved.

OR

Had they captured Mihdhar and Hazmi, the pentagon would not have been hit.

The value in knowing about Mihdhar and Hazmi was in finding out about their credit cards and their other contacts through phone records, and putting them on surveillance before and while they boarded their flight.

The fact that the FBI could have traced their credit card record to the flights on 9/11 departing the airport they were departing from would have been a big clue that if there were other flights that were going to be hijacked, that would have been departing at the same time these other flights also left the other airports.

Since it was reported that the credit cards of Mihdhar and Hazmi were used to purchase 10 of the airline tickets used on 9/11 and since one of the flights had only 4 terrorists on it, just these credit card purchases might have located at least three of the flights hijacked on 9/11, and could likely also have identified the three airport that all of the flights hijacked on 9/11 were taking off from. Had they been arrested this might also have prevented the attacks on 9/11. KSM stated that if he had known about the Moussaoui arrest, he would have called off the attacks on 9/11, at least temporarily

 

[paloalto]

CIA Realizes It's Been Using Black Highlighters All These Years!!

http://www.theonion.com/articles/cia-realizes-its-been-using-black-highlighters-all,1848/

Almost all documents at the CIA had a back up copy somewhere else at the CIA. It is not believable that they would actually high light with a black pen or marker, this was done to redact information in these documents which the CIA did on a regular basis.

But the documents that were redacted, in my opinion, must have had a back up copy somewhere else in the CIA and the redactions were only done when the CIA did not want the original documents with secret information shown to someone outside of the CIA.

Whoever marks up an original copy of a source or otherwise original document?

No one would believe that the CIA would be this dumb. This is another one of those dog ate my home work excuses to show that information was lost. Like the tapes of torture that the CIA said were not available until it was found out after the court asked for them that they had been available but then had been secretly destroyed just after the court's request.

 

[BStrong]

Having been around as long as I have, I have no problem believing that someone in any law enforcement or intelligence agency is that stupid.

And PA, FTR, The FBI and CIA have employees who do nothing other than hang paper on other employees for bending or breaking the sop rules and regs, let alone criminal statutes.

If your connect-the-dots investigator role play was even close to being provable in a court of law, the individuals in question would have been .

So. when are you going to D.C. and announce your findings?

 

[Robrob]

The fact that the FBI could have traced their credit card record to the flights on 9/11 departing the airport they were departing from would have been a big clue that if there were other flights that were going to be hijacked, that would have been departing at the same time these other flights also left the other airports.

Not to interrupt the use of your super-hindsight powers to tell us what "should have been done" but do you have any idea how long it takes - ouside of TV and movies (which apparently is where you do most of your research) - for a credit card company to respond to a federal grand jury subpoena?

 

[Spanx]

So in your extensive research, your did not find out that Mihdhar and Hazmi paid $2300 in cash for their tickets ?

You seem to forget that it is not an offence to buy airline tickets.

Your whole quest is about what if and attempting to divert the blame.

Has it not occurred to you that if America had something to hide they would not put it on the www ?