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What did viruses do before the Fall?

Trakar said:
Fundementalist Atheism is no prettier than fundementalist christianity.
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fundamentalist - a supporter of fundamentalism


The term "fundamentalism" was originally coined by its supporters to describe a specific package of theological beliefs that developed into a movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century,
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You don't get the change the meaning of words.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
According to this site, viruses could have been beneficial before the Fall (from the site):

Although today the virus is known simply as a disease causing particle, this aspect of its nature may have begun only following the fall of man. Jonathan Sarfati comments:
“ Some clues to possible benign pre-Fall roles for viruses can be gleaned from functions they have even today. Viruses are non-living entities, which function like seeds and spores, transporting genes among plants and animals. They also help keep soil fertile, keep water clean, and regulate gases in the atmosphere. [3]

I'll have to look up the Sarfati article.

ETA: Okay, I went to the Sarfati article via a link provided by the site and only found what's written above. One problem I have with the above explanation is this: If everything was perfect before the Fall, why would there be any need for such gene transfers? How did viruses keep the soil fertile, the water clean (except through killing bacteria, which wouldn't be needed before the Fall), and how could they regulate gases? I'll look this up.

ETA #2: No, I don't find anything to support Sarfati's claim that viruses have any positive effect on soil fertility or any effect on the atmosphere.

ETA #3: Here's what I found in another link from the site (emphasis added):

Did God make pathogenic viruses?
by Jerry Bergman, Ph.D.

Summary
A review of the structure, function, and role of viruses in ecology is presented. It is concluded that viruses are non-living entities, similar to seeds and spores whose functions include carrying genes from one plant or animal to another. Viruses are a part of a system that helps to produce the variety that is critical for life and, importantly, they carry resistance to disease from one organism to another. Most viruses live in their host without causing problems. Pathogenesis is evidence of something gone wrong, a mutation or the accidental movement of genes, and not evidence of a system deliberately designed to cause human disease and suffering.

I'm trying to figure out how this guy came up with the idea that most viruses do not harm their hosts. Is there anyone with a background in virology who can respond?
 
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Q: What did viruses do before the Fall?





A: They sat around complaining about the kids going all Retro on them!!!!!
 
dafydd said:
His belief in an evil sky daddy who kills innocent people in tsunamis was questioned. On a skeptic's forum too! Whatever next?
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Their god is the same as something that isn't there, and they still don't see.


Paul


:) :) :)
 
Trakar said:
The only christian commandments I am aware of are:

"Love God"

and

"love your neighbors as you love yourself"
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Yes, but how do you 'love' God?

By keeping His commandments. All of them.

Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

I Ratant said:
Back to viruses, I'm sure there was a benign quality to smallpox until the Fall.
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Viruses do nothing unless exposed to cells which are receptive to them. Without that contact, they are as benign and inert as a rock.

If no new 'kinds' were introduced after the Fall and viruses existed from the beginning, then perhaps those earlier people were simply immune to infection! According to the Bible, people did live much longer before the Flood, and it seems plausible that our immunity would have waned along with health in general.

Another possibility is that people just weren't exposed to viruses before the Flood. Perhaps viruses were previously confined to uninhabited areas such as mountaintops or ocean depths, and the deluge spread them around - like a sewer overflowing during heavy rain and polluting the drinking water. Was this an unintended consequence of God's using a flood to "wipe the slate clean" (it wouldn't be the first time He screwed up...)?

a_unique_person said:
Every time someone says that, baby jebus cries.
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But that's OK, cos there's also no literal jesus. ;)
 
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Toontown said:
Enough already. I want reparations. Big reparations. No silly little harp and tiny little cloud to sit on. I want a planet. An entire, pristine planet with a temperate climate and no predators and no ravenous, bloodsucking bugs. And lots of fine women. And immortality. And no enemies.
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That's what the Mormons are offering! But I still wouldn't take the deal if I were you.... they don't tell you everything until after you sign up....:eek:
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Yes, but how do you 'love' God?

By keeping His commandments. All of them.

Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
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I thought Christians interpreted the Resurrection of Jesus as fulfillment of the law of the old covenant so now they follow the new covenant.

That's how I've heard them rationalize it anyways.
 
TimCallahan said:
In all this verbiage, you don't seem to have answered the question in the OP. Since you seem to be having trouble with it, I'll break it down into simpler questions:

1) First of all, do you know what a virus is and how it attacks the host cell?

2) Second: Was there parasitism before the Fall, i.e. infectious diseases?

3) Were there bacteria before the Fall?

4) If there were, were they all beneficial or did some cause diseases?
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I'm not the one having trouble understanding it.

1. Yes

2. Maybe, but may not have affected man.
One of the things that point to there being some truth to all of this is that we know that Cro-Magnon, the precursor to modern humans; were more robust than we are, stronger and a great survivor, innovator. Not to mention vestigial organs.

3. I am sure there was.

4. They are all beneficial, man was immune until after the fall.


5. Yes before the fall we were a perfect human being with a greater resistance to all of the misfortunes that befall us now. The life span of the characters of the bible point to this also as they and their offspring’s lifespans diminish as time goes by.

The theme is: we were as perfect as a being could be in the Material universe.
Then we fall, then in the bible we are promised a return to that type of human after the second coming of Christ who restores the Earth and humans in the restored universe as I understand the biblical theme.

God commanded a kind of de-evolution and after evolution continues on the course it is on now along with those viruses and bacteria’s.
 
edge said:
The theme is: we were as perfect as a being could be in the Material universe.
Then we fall, then in the bible we are promised a return to that type of human after the second coming of Christ who restores the Earth and humans in the restored universe as I understand the biblical theme.
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He's a bit late.

Matt 16:28 There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Matt 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matt 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Mark 13:30 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Luke 21:32 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
 
Trakar said:
Again, your caricaturized distortions are not representative of my beliefs concerning God, and your again, continued insistance that your distortions are representative of my beliefs is personally insulting.
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dafydd said:
He's a bit late.

Matt 16:28 There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Matt 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matt 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Mark 13:30 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Luke 21:32 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
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Matt 16:28 500 witnessed this, it is called the ascension.

Matt 24:34 and the rest.

Since those generations, what that means is that you will see Christ upon your death no sleeping in the ground and that is what is reported by modern OBEs and NDEs; from modern medicine and medical observances by machines.
In other words when you die then judgment by Christ, your life flashes by and judgment of self occurs, that is what is reported.
 
edge said:
Matt 16:28 500 witnessed this, it is called the ascension.

Matt 24:34 and the rest.

Since those generations, what that means is that you will see Christ upon your death no sleeping in the ground and that is what is reported by modern OBEs and NDEs; from modern medicine and medical observances by machines.
In other words when you die then judgment by Christ, your life flashes by and judgment of self occurs, that is what is reported.
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Bollocks, ''this generation'' means this generation. Fail.
 
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There was not a fall, the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, humans never walked alongside dinosaurs, and viruses were around before both
 
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