What did viruses do before the Fall?

[edge]

Here, again, is the basic part of the OP:

Here's a question for DOC, edge, AvalonXQ and any other creationists on this forum: What did viruses do before the Fall of Man? Creationists explain such evils as predation and parasitism as resulting from God's curse on creation following the Fall of Man. It's their way of dealing with the less benign aspects of nature. Before the Fall, they argue, all species of animal were herbivores. All of the nasty stuff - not only predation and parasitism, but hernias and fallen arches - came about as a result of the Fall.
Now, perhaps I've gotten this wrong, although I picked it up from various creationist texts put out by the Institute for Creation Research. Creationists also argue that all of the "created kinds" were created before the fall. Viruses are too different from bacteria to be part of an already existing "kind" that differentiated after the fall. Thus, they must have, according to the YEC scenario, been created before the fall. Since they are obligate parasites, what did they do before the fall?

If you want YEC to be taken seriously, then it's important o be able to answer such questions.

What you have in yellow is a given with no question mark? I answered both questions.
But yes before the fall we were a perfect human being with a greater resistance to all of the misfortunes that befall us now. The life span of the characters of the bible point to this also as they and their offspring’s lifespans diminish as time goes by.

The theme is we were as perfect as a being could be in the Material universe.
Then we fall, then in the bible we are promised a return to that type of human after the second coming of Christ who restores the Earth and humans in the restored universe as I understand the biblical theme.

Those chosen 144,000 are the ones restored on Earth to start all over again in perfected new bodies.
I don't know about this, (all species of animal were herbivores) and neither do the YEC, or all there is to know about the past and what God did or didn't do.
But, one of the things that point to there being some truth to all of this is that we know that Cro-Magnon, the precursor to modern humans; they were more robust than we are, stronger and a great survivor, innovator. There is also our vestigial organ like the appendix, http://www.socialphy.com/posts/off-topic/6880/Top-5-Vestigial-Organs.html

Then there were the Neanderthals, are they an example of evolutions failed attempt at a type of human that was a dead end? Apparently since they no longer exist, were they the ones booted out of the garden? They did the same thing for hundreds of thousands of years, no innovation or very little.
Does innovation bring destruction? Will Human beings survive longer than Neanderthals? If so we have a long way to go. I thought this was cute:

 

[dafydd]

Looking at quantum physics, I rather think he was baked out of his mind at that point. That's the kind of "Dude, like, wouldn't it be totally cool if.... - Like man, totally. Can't wait to see them trying to figure that one out."-concept. I actually do like it.

He may have been on acid.

 

[dafydd]

The twisted confusions we come away with in our peeks through the seams, don't necessarily accurately reflect the underlying nature of that which we glimpse with incomplete understandings. Then again, the Creator is often attributed as being the "most high," so far beit from me to limit the potential of states of God.

Or it could be that gods do not exist.

 

[dafydd]

The post you took offense to was in response to a post that contained this line - "If there's a God who could prevent huge disasters, such as the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, which took 230,000 lives, or the 2010 Haitian earthquake, which took 300,000 lives, and this deity stood by passively and did nothing and let that grand total of 530,000 humans have their live snuffed out, I'd call that evil, and I certainly wouldn't see that God as worthy of worship. You, apparently, don't see anything amiss in this."

Implying that the atrocious caricature you portray is the God I believe in and that my beliefs apparently agree with and condone your portrayal is a personal and direct attack.

He is that atrocious character, if he exists. Why did your god snuff out those people? I note that you avoided answering that point.

 

[dafydd]

What person caused lightning to strike my daughter and what was the intent, motivation of doing so?

God. Motivation, unknown.

 

[dafydd]

Fundementalist Atheism is no prettier than fundementalist christianity.

No such thing as fundamentalist atheism. You either believe in imaginary gods or you don't. Some atheists are more vocal than others.

 

[dafydd]

This, to me, seems to be your personal conflation of the Creator with some sort of personal superman or genie devoted to righting the world's injustices as you perceive them. This has nothing to do with the God of my understanding or beliefs.

That's the problem . All Christians have a different god.

Again, your caricaturized distortions are not representative of my beliefs concerning God, and your again, continued insistance that your distortions are representative of my beliefs is personally insulting.

No they are not. Your beliefs are being criticized , not you. A smidgeon of proof regarding the existence of your god would not come amiss.

 

[Lowpro]

dafydd have you heard the expression "We all have great clarity in the God we don't believe in"?

 

[dafydd]

dafydd have you heard the expression "We all have great clarity in the God we don't believe in"?

Gods.

 

[TimCallahan]

What you have in yellow is a given with no question mark? I answered both questions.
But yes before the fall we were a perfect human being with a greater resistance to all of the misfortunes that befall us now. The life span of the characters of the bible point to this also as they and their offspring’s lifespans diminish as time goes by.

The theme is we were as perfect as a being could be in the Material universe.
Then we fall, then in the bible we are promised a return to that type of human after the second coming of Christ who restores the Earth and humans in the restored universe as I understand the biblical theme.

Those chosen 144,000 are the ones restored on Earth to start all over again in perfected new bodies.
I don't know about this, (all species of animal were herbivores) and neither do the YEC, or all there is to know about the past and what God did or didn't do.
But, one of the things that point to there being some truth to all of this is that we know that Cro-Magnon, the precursor to modern humans; they were more robust than we are, stronger and a great survivor, innovator. There is also our vestigial organ like the appendix, http://www.socialphy.com/posts/off-topic/6880/Top-5-Vestigial-Organs.html

Then there were the Neanderthals, are they an example of evolutions failed attempt at a type of human that was a dead end? Apparently since they no longer exist, were they the ones booted out of the garden? They did the same thing for hundreds of thousands of years, no innovation or very little.
Does innovation bring destruction? Will Human beings survive longer than Neanderthals? If so we have a long way to go. I thought this was cute:

In all this verbiage, you don't seem to have answered the question in the OP. Since you seem to be having trouble with it, I'll break it down into simpler questions:

1) First of all, do you know what a virus is and how it attacks the host cell?

2) Second: Was there parasitism before the Fall, i.e. infectious diseases?

3) Were there bacteria before the Fall?

4) If there were, were they all beneficial or did some cause diseases?

 

[Beerina]

So the fact that my grandparent's copulations ultimately resulted in my existence makes them responsible for the consequences of all my decisions and actions?

I find that a very strange perspective.

If they knew exactly what you would do, then, yes, that would make them responsible...as would you yourself, of course.

 

[I Ratant]

No such thing as fundamentalist atheism. You either believe in imaginary gods or you don't. Some atheists are more vocal than others.

.
There's no way to believe in less or more nothing than anyone else.

 

[dafydd]

.
There's no way to believe in less or more nothing than anyone else.

But believing in one more god than atheists do is perfectly possible.

 

[I Ratant]

But how come it is that the "one god" has so many versions with revisions to the revisions of each of those?
Did he contract with Willwe,Soofem& Howe for the PR campaign?
.
Back to viruses, I'm sure there was a benign quality to smallpox until the Fall.
All those pockmarks added skin area to help cooling during the heat wave in the Garden.

 

[dafydd]

But how come it is that the "one god" has so many versions with revisions to the revisions of each of those?
Did he contract with Willwe,Soofem& Howe for the PR campaign?
.
Back to viruses, I'm sure there was a benign quality to smallpox until the Fall.
All those pockmarks added skin area to help cooling during the heat wave in the Garden.

What were viruses doing before the Fall? Line dancing.

 

[TimCallahan]

But how come it is that the "one god" has so many versions with revisions to the revisions of each of those?
Did he contract with Willwe,Soofem& Howe for the PR campaign?
.
Back to viruses, I'm sure there was a benign quality to smallpox until the Fall.
All those pockmarks added skin area to help cooling during the heat wave in the Garden.

Ah, but were there heat waves before the Fall?

 

[tsig]

Atheism that believes that the only true christians are the literalist fundementalist christians.

Actually people were questioning you about your beliefs then you jumped into name calling.

 

[I Ratant]

Ah, but were there heat waves before the Fall?

.
You hit the thumb on the nail right there; the sole flaw in my theory.

 

[tsig]

No such thing as fundamentalist atheism. You either believe in imaginary gods or you don't. Some atheists are more vocal than others.

Looks like he's played the "I'm insulted" card and knackered off. Believers are such dainty things.

 

[Olowkow]

What did virii [/pedant] do before the Fall?

They spent their summer causing colds. (rimshot)