Only a disinfo agent would say that no plane hit the Pentagon

[Clayton Moore]

No, you are wrong as usual. you never disappoint.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

One of the pilots summarized his experiences by stating, "This whole ground effect argument is ridiculous. People need to realize that crashing a plane into a building as massive as the Pentagon is remarkably easy and takes no skill at all. Landing one on a runway safely even under the best conditions? Now that's the hard part!"

Which is amusing because one the difficulties of landing is controlling your speed because of, in part, the ground effect.

 

[1337m4n]

Has any argument been presented yet that overcomes the:

• Radar data
• Airfone/cell phone calls
• FDR
• Eyewitnesses
• Human remains (same link as "Eyewitnesses" above)
• Wreckage
• Air Traffic Controllers statements (sure, I could sort of lump this in with the radar data above, since they were the ones viewing the data... but why not separate it out? It's still it's own line of observations).
• First responders statements (separate from "Eyewitnesses", as those I define as the ones who personally witnessed the jet crash, not just the aftermath. Of course, there's some overlap here as some of the first responders were indeed also crash eyewitnesses).

North of the Citgo^TM

 

[Clayton Moore]

Has any argument been presented yet that overcomes the:

• Radar data
• Airfone/cell phone calls
• FDR
• Eyewitnesses
• Human remains (same link as "Eyewitnesses" above)
• Wreckage
• Air Traffic Controllers statements (sure, I could sort of lump this in with the radar data above, since they were the ones viewing the data... but why not separate it out? It's still it's own line of observations).
• First responders statements (separate from "Eyewitnesses", as those I define as the ones who personally witnessed the jet crash, not just the aftermath. Of course, there's some overlap here as some of the first responders were indeed also crash eyewitnesses).

Granted, these are the conspiracy peddlers here. They do think single pebbles are somehow the equivalent of towering mountains, but still... in the rational world, have they managed to bring up anything about Flight 77 and the Pentagon that actually changes the basics of what we know about that day? I've not seen it, but I'm only one guy...

Do you think the remains of the hijackers were dumped in the Atlantic ocean?

 

[jaydeehess]

Which is amusing because one the difficulties of landing is controlling your speed because of, in part, the ground effect.

One more topic in which you are woefully uneducated Clayton.

In a "landing" the nose is up and the flaps are extended both of which greatly increase 'ground effect'.

Trimmed for cruise, nose level or even slightly nose down (which is what flight 77 was doing) and travelling at high speed, ground effect would be all but non-existant!

Perhaps you need to read a bit more (or anything at all) about the physics of ground effect.

 

[DGM]

Which is amusing because one the difficulties of landing is controlling your speed because of, in part, the ground effect.

Could you explain why this would be? What does ground effect have to do with speed control.

I bet we can add this to:

If flight 77 was flying that low to the ground at about 500 mph it would have crashed before it hit the Pentagon.

Could you explain why?

That Clayton can't answer.

 

[Crazytimes]

Has any argument been presented yet that overcomes the:

• Radar data
• Airfone/cell phone calls
• FDR
• Eyewitnesses
• Human remains (same link as "Eyewitnesses" above)
• Wreckage
• Air Traffic Controllers statements (sure, I could sort of lump this in with the radar data above, since they were the ones viewing the data... but why not separate it out? It's still it's own line of observations).
• First responders statements (separate from "Eyewitnesses", as those I define as the ones who personally witnessed the jet crash, not just the aftermath. Of course, there's some overlap here as some of the first responders were indeed also crash eyewitnesses).

Granted, these are the conspiracy peddlers here. They do think single pebbles are somehow the equivalent of towering mountains, but still... in the rational world, have they managed to bring up anything about Flight 77 and the Pentagon that actually changes the basics of what we know about that day? I've not seen it, but I'm only one guy...

Faked
Faked
Faked
Government plants
Faked
Planted
Lied
Lied

 

[twinstead]

Faked
Faked
Faked
Government plants
Faked
Planted
Lied
Lied

Yup. That about sums it up. INSIDE JOB!!11!!11!!11!!!

 

[NoahFence]

Do you think the remains of the hijackers were dumped in the Atlantic ocean?

How about you go through the list and pick one.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

North of the Citgo^TM

Damn, I hate getting debunked.

Faked
Faked
Faked
Government plants
Faked
Planted
Lied
Lied

Look, when we called it a "garden variety" conspiracy theory, I didn't think we meant this:

 

[beachnut]

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

Which is amusing because one the difficulties of landing is controlling your speed because of, in part, the ground effect.

Pilots' aim point is a narrow window for landing precisely. The terrorists were pilots, trained pilots who learned how to aim. This is why the terrorist pilot on 77 hit the Pentagon, he was aiming at it. Despite almost hitting the over/under pass on the highway, he was aiming at what was the largest target on 911. What do you think the approach angle is when we land?

It is much easier, to crash into a building than land safely and precisely. No skill is required to crash into an object sticking up 70 feet high and up to 900 feet wide.

One of the pilots summarized his experiences by stating, "This whole ground effect argument is ridiculous. People need to realize that crashing a plane into a building as massive as the Pentagon is remarkably easy and takes no skill at all. Landing one on a runway safely even under the best conditions? Now that's the hard part!" While he may have been exaggerating a bit for effect, he does raise a valid point that flying skillfully and safely is much more difficult than flying as recklessly as the terrorists did on September 11. http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

...
Which is amusing because one the difficulties of landing is controlling your speed because of, in part, the ground effect.

What? A trained pilot has no problem with ground effect, ground effect does not keep a plane at high speed from flying.

Please explain why ground effect is a factor on 911? Expand on your flying knowledge, add some references.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Has any argument been presented yet that overcomes the:

• Radar data
• Airfone/cell phone calls
  
  
  
• FDR
  
  
  
  
• Eyewitnesses
• Human remains (same link as "Eyewitnesses" above)
• Wreckage
• Air Traffic Controllers statements (sure, I could sort of lump this in with the radar data above, since they were the ones viewing the data... but why not separate it out? It's still it's own line of observations).
• First responders statements (separate from "Eyewitnesses", as those I define as the ones who personally witnessed the jet crash, not just the aftermath. Of course, there's some overlap here as some of the first responders were indeed also crash eyewitnesses).

Granted, these are the conspiracy peddlers here. They do think single pebbles are somehow the equivalent of towering mountains, but still... in the rational world, have they managed to bring up anything about Flight 77 and the Pentagon that actually changes the basics of what we know about that day? I've not seen it, but I'm only one guy...

[*]FDR

"Thursday afternoon, searchers said they received a signal from one of the black boxes of the airliner. Crews will not be able to retrieve the black box, which could contain information about the last minutes of the plane, until they are able to enter the collapsed area of the building, where the plane's fuselage rests. They were to begin moving into the collapsed area sometime Thursday night, said Arlington County Fire Capt. Scott McKay." http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=3817&archive=true


That's funny. Did the fdr wake up?

What happened to the beacon?

 

[beachnut]

...
That's funny. Did the fdr wake up?

What happened to the beacon?

Found 77's FDR in the Pentagon, and all the DNA save one person in the Pentagon. Looks grim for your fantasy delusions.

What beacon? Please explain the beacon. Good luck

 

[cjnewson88]

Aircraft FDRs have their own ELT for when they become detached from the aircraft, so they can be located from places like under an ocean, or in this case, in a building..

I don't get what is so strange about this.

Clayton,88, what do you say to this?



Oh wait, fake right? It's all fake? Eye witnesses are fake. Video is fake. Radar is fake. ATC is fake. Wreckage is fake. Passengers were fake. Hijackers were fake. Pilots were fake. The entire pentagon event was fake, aside from a missile which came from no where and created a gigantic fireball and fire at the pentagon? Honest how the hell can truthers be happy with this logic!?

 

[Bell]

[...] The entire pentagon event was fake, aside from a missile which came from no where and created a gigantic fireball and fire at the pentagon? [...]

Actually, that missile came from one of the secret underground missile batteries that are strewn across D.C.

 

[George 152]

Could you explain why this would be? What does ground effect have to do with speed control.

I bet we can add this to:

That Clayton can't answer.

Clayton reminds me of a certain Walter Mitty..

 

[LSSBB]

Aircraft FDRs have their own ELT for when they become detached from the aircraft, so they can be located from places like under an ocean, or in this case, in a building..

I don't get what is so strange about this.

Clayton,88, what do you say to this?



Oh wait, fake right? It's all fake? Eye witnesses are fake. Video is fake. Radar is fake. ATC is fake. Wreckage is fake. Passengers were fake. Hijackers were fake. Pilots were fake. The entire pentagon event was fake, aside from a missile which came from no where and created a gigantic fireball and fire at the pentagon? Honest how the hell can truthers be happy with this logic!?

Because it supplies the answer they want?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Where you expect to see a shadow the topography drops off because of the cloverleaf underpass flight 77 flew over diagonally.
[qimg]http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/317_pentagon_approach.jpg[/qimg]
the trees are on the south west side of that cloverleaf, And they ARE blocked as far as I can see, The only other trees that would appear through a fish eye lens would be a pair alongside Washington boulevard across from the helipad. Those disputing the expected length of the plane should compare the angle of flight in relation to the security camera. I have to laugh at those who try to draw lines of perspective on buildings and objects via screen grabs complaining about the height of the pentagon compared to the size of the plane and its assumed altitude when viewed through a fish eye lens.

http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/steves-analysis.htm

Using the map in the Analysis by
Steve Koeppel and the Arlington Arts Center as a basic landmark it would appear the novice pilot completed a perfect 500 mph, 270 degree bank in time hit the Pentagon at an angle from about less than three miles out as the crow flies.




Arlington Arts Center VA to the Pentagon

 

[fess]

Which is amusing because one the difficulties of landing is controlling your speed because of, in part, the ground effect.

Even a student pilot with less than 5 hours of flight time would point their finger at you and laugh.

 

[Mudcat]

Kewl.

Intelligence agency.

And here I thought you were talking about A&P mechanics holding an Inspection Authorization, who would know a whole helluva lot more about aircraft performance than the Intelligence Agency.

 

[Mudcat]

Even a student pilot with less than 5 hours of flight time would point their finger at you and laugh.

This student of aviation maintenance is doing so, and I a have no piloting experience.