Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[elbe]

Beeeeecause...?

Well, Robert doesn't agree with him. Since Obama says things Robert doesn't agree with, Obama must be wrong about those things. Since there are people like Robert in America Obama must know the "truth", but must be choosing to be wrong. If Obama is knowingly being wrong he must be lying, so therefore Obama is a liar.

That's my guess.

 

[Ladewig]

You need proof? How about Debbiie Wasserman Schultz? That woman needs an exorcism.

I know this will sound like a picayune request, but when I ask questions, may I have more specific answers?

I wasn't asking for proof or evidence. I was just asking for your position.

May I conclude that you are completely serious when you describe the Democratic Party as "the Demon Party. All evil; all liars."? They are not simply misguided or mistaken - your position is that they have evil intentions and will stop at nothing to implement their evil plans. Is that your position?


ETA: if you think this request is too far afield from the OP, then can we start a new thread in which you describe (in perhaps 100-900 words) your positions on federal politics. I would love to know your positions on income tax, Barack Obama's eligibility to be president, impeachable offenses that Barack Obama has committed, will the November elections be cancelled or indefinitely postponed, Democrat leaders who call themselves Christians, the most evil thing the Democrats have done in the 21st century, the most evil thing that the Democrats hope to accomplish in the next two years, in the next twenty years, etc.

MORE ETA: I cannot believe that I am the only poster on this board that wants the answers to those questions.
If you would prefer to discuss these things on a message board that is less JREF-y, please let me know so I can join that board.

 

[Robert Prey]

I know this will sound like a picayune request, but when I ask questions, may I have more specific answers?

I wasn't asking for proof or evidence. I was just asking for your position.

May I conclude that you are completely serious when you describe the Democratic Party as "the Demon Party. All evil; all liars."? They are not simply misguided or mistaken - your position is that they have evil intentions and will stop at nothing to implement their evil plans. Is that your position?


ETA: if you think this request is too far afield from the OP, then can we start a new thread in which you describe (in perhaps 100-900 words) your positions on federal politics. I would love to know your positions on income tax, Barack Obama's eligibility to be president, impeachable offenses that Barack Obama has committed, will the November elections be cancelled or indefinitely postponed, Democrat leaders who call themselves Christians, the most evil thing the Democrats have done in the 21st century, the most evil thing that the Democrats hope to accomplish in the next two years, in the next twenty years, etc.

MORE ETA: I cannot believe that I am the only poster on this board that wants the answers to those questions.
If you would prefer to discuss these things on a message board that is less JREF-y, please let me know so I can join that board.

One question at at time, please.

 

[gnome]

And the O's transcripts are not sealed? And there is proof somewhere that he did not receive a For. Ex. Student scholarship? Don't be fooled by an April's Fool's Red Herring.

Why would you say that? You certainly were. Is there any other source for the claim of receiving a foreign scholarship than that joke?

 

[Border Reiver]

Gawd, you libs just love that race card.

No other of your Presidents had had anywhere close to the the number of baseless questions as to their eligibility to serve as POTUS, even the ones that had served in the armed forces of a foreign power (looking at you Col. Washington). Seems to be that most of this seems to be that he has the gall to be a person who is not of European ethnic origin in the Oval Office.

What do you call the reason?

Show your work.

 

[Robert Prey]

No other of your Presidents had had anywhere close to the the number of baseless questions as to their eligibility to serve as POTUS, even the ones that had served in the armed forces of a foreign power (looking at you Col. Washington). Seems to be that most of this seems to be that he has the gall to be a person who is not of European ethnic origin in the Oval Office.

What do you call the reason?

Show your work.

Phony birth certificates, a completely un-vetted background, sealed record for college attendance transcripts, and theses, a background of election victories based on dirty tricks to an opponent, crusades against American Businesss ("You didn't build that..." ) crusade against American fossil fuels -- coal, oil, etc., Crony Capitalism to favor Lemon (green) industries like Salandra et al, alliances with corrupt Chicago cronies, an admitted attraction to Marxism, unprecedented spending and debt, an admitted former dope user and probable pusher, etc., etc., etc.

 

[A'isha]

Phony birth certificates,

Nope.

a completely un-vetted background,

Nope.

sealed record for college attendance transcripts,

Nope.

and theses,

Nope.

a background of election victories based on dirty tricks to an opponent,

Nope.

crusades against American Businesss ("You didn't build that..." )

Nope.

crusade against American fossil fuels -- coal, oil, etc.,

Nope.

Crony Capitalism to favor Lemon (green) industries like Salandra et al,

It's spelled "Solyndra".

And nope.

alliances with corrupt Chicago cronies,

Nope.

an admitted attraction to Marxism,

Nope.

unprecedented spending and debt,

Nope.

an admitted former dope user

Correct.

and probable pusher, etc., etc., etc.

And, finally, nope.

One out of 13, for a score of 7.7%. That's an F Minus Minus Minus, Robert.

Please see me after class.

 

[JayUtah]

Employing the Race Card, is the last refuge of a the morally bankrupt Liberal.

No. Critics of the "birthers" have presented substantial evidence that the challenges to Barack Obama's legitimacy as President are racially motivated. It is not "morally bankrupt" to consider that evidence. Besides, I see few people here who have revealed any sort of political leanings. To assume they're all political liberals is without evidence. To assume further that objection to "birther" nonsense can only have political motivation is even further without evidence.

 

[davefoc]

So why do you keep lying, then? Do you like being a sinner?

I'm not sure that he is exactly lying in the sense that he is aware that what he says is wrong. I understand that this is hard to believe given how obviously false a lot of it is, but the fact is that a lot of people in the US who hold routine partisan views of the world have ramped them up into some kind of anti-Obama hysteria where reason left the building a long time ago.

I don't understand this phenomena but it is real. Is it because Obama is black? Is it because we are going through particularly partisan times where a percentage of the population mainlines Fox News partisan extremism every day? Is it because hyper partisans like Gingrich, Hannity and Limbaugh found a ready audience by pandering to this crowd? I don't know but I know that at least once a week I get some sort of hyper partisan anti-Obama screed forwarded to me from a family member. Sometimes the stuff is obviously false and it would only appeal to somebody that has lost touch with reality concerning Obama. Sometimes it is a more subtle twisting of the facts. Either way, the effect of this kind of thing is to create a crowd of people that believe every accusation made against Obama without question.

 

[Ladewig]

Phony birth certificates, a completely un-vetted background, sealed record for college attendance transcripts, and theses, a background of election victories based on dirty tricks to an opponent, crusades against American Businesss ("You didn't build that..." ) crusade against American fossil fuels -- coal, oil, etc., Crony Capitalism to favor Lemon (green) industries like Salandra et al, alliances with corrupt Chicago cronies, an admitted attraction to Marxism, unprecedented spending and debt, an admitted former dope user and probable pusher, etc., etc., etc.

Thank you. You have answered many of my questions.

May I ask your opinion about what is the most evil thing that the Democratic Party has done since between 1940 and 2004? If you are not comfortable answering that question, then please estimate in the eyes of most Republicans what the most evil thing was.


...........

I apologize for not being formal and polite earlier in this thread. If you still feel I am acting inappropriately, please announce it or send me a private message.

 

[Robert Prey]

Thank you. You have answered many of my questions.

May I ask your opinion about what is the most evil thing that the Democratic Party has done since between 1940 and 2004? If you are not comfortable answering that question, then please estimate in the eyes of most Republicans what the most evil thing was.
.

I think ObamaCare ranks right up there. Not just for what it is, but the way it was mis-represented and pushed through without adhering to the traditional legislative procedures, with the American people clearly against it, and nobody having even read it.

"You have to first pass the bill in order to find out what's in it."
-- Pelosi

 

[Robert Prey]

I don't see where you have a basis for calling him a liar. You raised several points, all of which have been addressed or refuted elsewhere to various extents -- some to the point that bringing them up again is considered a sign of desperation. If you raise the points but do not acknowledge the rebuttals already on the table or offer anything new for those points, then jumping right to personal accusations as a response to the objection is pretty dismissive.

In terms of the birth certificate especially, the question has been settled to everyone's satisfaction except for a few entrenched noisemakers who have no material claim. The rest is just mud-stirring. You really have no foundation for calling someone a liar when he rejects your attempts to start the topic all over again.

None of the points have been "refuted." Simply saying they aren't true is not a refutation.

 

[Chaos]

None of the points have been "refuted." Saying they aren't true is not a refutation.

You made the claims; it´s your job to prove them. And, no, you don´t prove them simply by making the claims.

 

[Robert Prey]

No. Critics of the "birthers" have presented substantial evidence that the challenges to Barack Obama's legitimacy as President are racially motivated. It is not "morally bankrupt" to consider that evidence. Besides, I see few people here who have revealed any sort of political leanings. To assume they're all political liberals is without evidence. To assume further that objection to "birther" nonsense can only have political motivation is even further without evidence.

To assume that any criticism of a man who happens to be Black is because he is Black is an inflammatory ad hominem attack and completely and totally without merit. Shame on you for your sympathy for such racist nonsense.

 

[A'isha]

To assume that any criticism of a man who happens to be Black is because he is Black is an inflammatory ad hominem attack and completely and totally without merit.

Not any criticism, true.

The "criticism" from the Birthers, however, absolutely.

 

[Robert Prey]

It is my goal to have a better understanding of your position.

How much of that should be interpreted as literal description and how much should be interpreted as hyperbole?

Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America - By Ann Coulter

Highly recommended.

 

[R.A.F.]

Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America - By Ann Coulter

Highly recommended.

Coulter is such a tool...you couldn't pay me to read such crap.

...and no, I don't have to read it to KNOW it is crap....I just consider the source/title of the book.

 

[Upchurch]

I think ObamaCare ranks right up there.

Just to clarify, one of the most evil things the Democratic Party has done, in your opinion, is to enact the Heritage Foundation's conservative answer to the Clinton's health care reform plan. Is that correct?

 

[Ladewig]

Thank you. You have answered many of my questions.

May I ask your opinion about what is the most evil thing that the Democratic Party has done since between 1940 and 2004? .

I think ObamaCare ranks right up there. Not just for what it is, but the way it was mis-represented and pushed through without adhering to the traditional legislative procedures, with the American people clearly against it, and nobody having even read it.

"You have to first pass the bill in order to find out what's in it."
-- Pelosi

I chose 2004 as an ending point because I wanted to talk about things before Obama.

I kind of expected eliminating school prayer, legalizing the murder of unborn children, the Senate acquitting Bill Clinton of obstruction of justice, the Clinton "hit list," granting China MFN status, lax enforcement of drug laws, lax enforcement of immigration laws, inciting class warfare in an effort to gain/hold power, allowing gays into the military, rewriting history books to hide truths from schoolchildren, attempting to destroy traditional family values, attempting to redefine traditional families, passing gun control legislation, or something like that.

You don't have to chose from my list, I am just looking for the most evil act perpetrated by the demonic Democrat Party between 1940 and 2004.

 

[JayUtah]

None of the points have been "refuted." Simply saying they aren't true is not a refutation.

You're expected to be aware of the existing refutations, and to account for them in your post. Do you think these issues spring into existence ex nihilo the moment you start paying attention to them? No, they are subjects of ongoing (and in most cases, rationally settled) debate. Simply starting the debate over, as you seem to have done, is dishonest.