Not been following the news have you?
http://www.timesofisrael.com/german...st-victims-living-in-the-former-soviet-union/
That 80.000 means a vastly more numerous amount in 1945.
Indeed, yes it does. Since about
1 million Jews fled from areas of the Soviet Union occupied by the Nazis and
qualify for this new regulation, that they're talking about
80,000 possible claimants is no stretch. I wonder if you're getting confused between eastern Poland and the entire Soviet Union occupied by the Nazis in 1941-44. It's a common rookie mistake I'm afraid.
About France, ANOTHER news update for you:
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-02-28/...french-relations-genocide-denial?_s=PM:EUROPE
I don't think ANYONE has been convicted yet for denying the Armenian genocide.
Actually yes they have.
Bernard Lewis was convicted in a civil proceedings in France in the 1990s already. France's Gayssot law could conceivably already be used to convict for any type of genocide denial, while Switzerland's genocide denial law is exactly that.
Well there is a very good source alright. Glad we agree on the "guesstimate".
A well-informed guesstimate from an Axis insider, which just so happens to be very close to the mark for the date in question.
All those reports on actual deaths (not just deportations) together work out to a few hundred thousands, which I'll not deny as possible. To get from there to six million, nice try.
Since we were discussing 2 million dead by June 1942, your goalpost-shifting is utterly pathetic. And why do you think that I was quoting
all the extant reports, whether up to June 1942 or for the whole war?
It is in the Nuremberg Trial Proceedings alright. You insinuated it was an isolated case at the Nuremberg trials (at Treblinka admittedly).
I insinuated nothing of the sort. In fact
A Soviet submarine engine is a VERY SPECIFIC detail Nick. I don't think ANY submarine engine is WWII was anything OTHER than a diesel.
Specific it may be, but the person relating the detail was doing so 20 years after the fact and could easily have mixed up submarines with tanks, never mind gotten it completely wrong, or been misinformed entirely.
You still haven't explained why Eichmann visiting the camp for a day or part of a day and misremembering something 20 years later outweighs the testimonies of those who worked with the engines for months on end.
A witness interrogated by the British in 1945.
When you have deigned to tell us about what books you have read,
then we might move on to the niceties of archival referencing.
Vergasung means gassifying. Indeed it is used for delousing as Zyklon B needed to be turned into a gas as well as in the context of the crematoria as the coal needed to be gassified. Gas chamber still is and always has been Gaskammer. Vergasungskeller is gassifying cellar or basement.
Sorry, no, you're still flatly wrong. Do you want to have all the German native speakers on this thread confirm that for you. Vergasung in this context means gassing. In other contexts it can mean 'gasification', which has a specific, technical meaning beyond the release of gas into a space.
A patent means SQUAT. British Railways also has a patent on a flying saucer. A patent doesn't mean something was actually built. It instead seems to undermine your argumentation as in the patent it is stated the current ovens were NOT continuous while some of the documents presented by Holohoaxsters as "genuine" clearly show they were used continuously and were capable of one cremation per muffle in 15 MINUTES.
If you're quite done with the all-caps shouting, it's not the design that was patented that is crucial here. The patent was of a continuous-operation mass incineration furnace, indeed the very same one that Sander was interrogated about (since that has come up in other posts). The design was based on the existing practices in camps.
Look, it's quite simple
1. Topf supplied Auschwitz and a few other camps with crematoria
2. Topf designed a mass incineration furnace and applied for a patent
3. In the patent application, they referenced the cremation of bodies simultaneously.
the patent doesn't stand alone, because in other documents from Topf, we find them referring to stuffing muffles with multiple bodies.
These documents confirm one obvious reading of the '4756' memo. Rather than referring to cremating one body in 15 minutes, it is quite obvious that the memo could be referring to cremating two bodies in 30 minutes.
Indeed, one could simply bother to listen to the witnesses who talk about multiple body cremation to arrive at that common-sense reading of the document and of the numbers. But we don't even have to listen to the witnesses; we have the fact of multiple body per muffle cremation written down in black and white in contemporary wartime Nazi documents. By the very firm that built the crematoria, no less.
That's why it could and should be so damning for holohoaxsters. If all stamps and everything add up, yet it is a fake, this would mean that a lot of other documents called genuine can be cast into doubt. Cremations in 15 minutes are physically impossible. There are other indications pointing towards forgery. The patent you mentioned, stated that current ovens were NOT for continuous operation:
it will be impossible to reduce to ashes only one corpse at a time AND
which according to their design are loaded and operated periodically
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/cremation/Furn-cap.shtml
Yet what do we see here?
Krema I: 3 x 2 muffles : 340 per day
Krema II: 5 x 3 muffles : 1440 per day
Krema III: 5 x 3 muffles : 1440 per day
Krema IV: 8 muffles : 768 per day
Krema V: 8 muffles : 768 per day
And these figures are assuming 24 hour contunuous operation. Why if such operation is IMPOSSIBLE? There is further evidence of tampering with figures: 1440 can be divided by 24 AND by the the number of muffles (5 times 3 = 15) which will result in one cremation per 15 minutes. 768 can be divided by 24 AND by the the number of muffles (8) which will result in one cremation per 15 minutes. 340 CAN NOT be divided by either 24 NOR by the number of muffles 6. Neither will result in an integer number. WHY? This document suggests Germans sucked at both basic math, engineering (assuming 24 hour continuous operation when such is impossible) and physics (one cremation in 15 minutes).
Blah, blah, blah. This has already been answered several times now on this thread, never mind elsewhere. The '4756' document is clearly an expression of theoretical capacity. The continuous 24 hour cycle was never really needed anyway; but given the premise that 2 bodies would be inserted into each muffle simultaneously, the numbers make perfect sense.
As I've already explained, the cremation cycle involved inserting two fresh bodies into a muffle, and then inserting two more after half an hour, by which time the bulk of the cremation of the first two bodies was more or less complete and the corpses were drastically reduced in size. Modern day cremation experts have pointed out that most of the work is done in the first half hour. By pushing the nearly-cremated corpse to the back - the size has been estimated as that of a 'rugby football' in one modern source - there was now room for two more bodies. In the next half an hour, there could be some benefits from the release of energy from the first corpses (which comes later on in the cycle, apparently) speeding up the next pair of corpses.
The figure of 340 for Krema I is a fudge from scaling up on previous calculations, not a neat number generated as with the figures for Kremas II-V from the initial testing of Krema II. Indeed it's been pointed out that the figures for Kremas IV and V are simply derived from the values calculated for Krema II.
The '4756' document is not a forgery. You have not refuted the point that the Soviets did not rely on it for their May 1945 report which estimated higher totals, nor the fact that the document was discussed in the summer of 1945 in secret. The document sits quite happily in the relevant Zentralbauleitung file in its proper sequence, and is corroborated by a memo from Hoess asking for exactly those figures - what capacity do these new toys have? An obvious question which the ZBL answered.
We also have an earlier memo using lower but still impressively high figures, from September 1942, and then a memo from Topf stating that the same 3 muffle design had 1/3 greater efficiency than predicted when the same design was installed in Buchenwald in autumn 1942. Just two more documents in the overall paper-trail.
Try again, this time without the ALLCAPS and without the misrepresentation of one sequential body after another.
If way too little food was shipped, not only masses of jews would have starved to death, now isn't it? Jews were NOT the majority in a number of camps.
Why do you think that we don't already know this? You deniers are the ones who keep equivocating between the concentration camps and the Holocaust. The camps overlapped with the Holocaust; Jews were among those who starved in the camps. Nobody ever said they were the only ones to starve in the camps.
