Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

Krikkiter said:
Do try and keep up Justinian. It's been established that $cientoloy is no kind of therapy. It's a cult founded on pseudoscience and the ravings of pill-popping, drunken lunatic. I repeat, it is not therapy. Unless you count conning people out of their hard earned cash as therapy.

By the way, can you tell us about Xenu and the Galactic Federation? The volcanoes and H-bombs?
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No credentials.
 
AdMan said:
Justinian, see if you can forget you are a Scientology robot and answer a damned question directly.

You are supposed to be "clear"? You are coming across like an automaton, programmed to avoid any kind of honest discussion.
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No credentials.
 
"Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase 'It turns my blood to water.'" - L. Ron Hubbard, "Journal of Scientology," Issue 15-G, 1953
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No credentials.
 
If you're on the look-out for analyses of the methods of Scientology carried out by people with credentials, then I point you towards the FDA who investigated thoroughly and found that auditing had no medical value whatsoever, which is why e-meters, by law, have to carry a sticker saying that they have no therapeutic value.

The device should bear a prominent, clearly visible notice warning that any person using it for auditing or counseling of any kind is forbidden by law to represent that there is any medical or scientific basis for believing or asserting that the device is useful in the diagnosis, treatment or prevention of any disease. It should be noted in the warning that the device has been condemned by a United States District Court for misrepresentation and misbranding under the Food and Drug laws, that use is permitted only as part of religious activity, and that the E-meter is not medically or scientifically capable of improving the health or bodily functions of anyone.
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There you go, credentials.

What credentials do you have for saying that the FDA is wrong? Unless you can cite any, I'll go with the actual science.
 
I've only been lurking, but I find Justinian2's latest reversion to veiled (and not-so-veiled) insults coupled with the fallacious question of credentials very typical of what I have learned of Scientologist tactics and typical of my (admittedly limited) experience with Scientologist's themselves.

He loses on the facts and so goes on the offensive. It doesn't matter how much it is pointed out that his arguments are vacuous, flawed, or non-existent; it doesn't matter that the flaws he claims are within the arguments/positions of his opponents are actually flaws within his own position; it doesn't matter that truth is absent from his side. All that matters is that he win by redirecting attention. He will continue to do so as calmly as the argument allows, but will, if necessary, become vitriolic about it. Both he and Scientology (Free Zone or not) have no shame.

Scientology: The McCarthyism of cons.
 
Garrette said:
I've only been lurking, but I find Justinian2's latest reversion to veiled (and not-so-veiled) insults coupled with the fallacious question of credentials very typical of what I have learned of Scientologist tactics and typical of my (admittedly limited) experience with Scientologist's themselves.

He loses on the facts and so goes on the offensive. It doesn't matter how much it is pointed out that his arguments are vacuous, flawed, or non-existent; it doesn't matter that the flaws he claims are within the arguments/positions of his opponents are actually flaws within his own position; it doesn't matter that truth is absent from his side. All that matters is that he win by redirecting attention. He will continue to do so as calmly as the argument allows, but will, if necessary, become vitriolic about it. Both he and Scientology (Free Zone or not) have no shame.

Scientology: The McCarthyism of cons.
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It's all rather predicable.

"Don't ever defend.
Always attack"
Scientology's attitude to criticism
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http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/philosop.htm
 
Rrose Selavy said:
It's all rather predicable.



http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/philosop.htm
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Yep. It's the PR victory he is after, not similar to but exactly like the schoolyard bully who gets the crowd on his side because he is louder and quick the empty but pointed barb.

I find nothing, and I truly mean nothing, to respect in the beliefs, practices, or tactics of Scientology, Free Zoners, or its/their followers.

And in anticipation of the response: What credentials do you have, Justinian2, to question my stance? I have read Diaenetics. I have read other Scientology material. I have spoken with Scientologists. What do you know of me? Nothing. You have no releveant credentials to question me.
 
Justinian2 said:
No credentials.
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Once again Justinian, you really need to keep up to speed with the conversation. Your question regarding credentials is redundant. All that's needed to evaluate the validity of things like Xenu, the Galactic Confederacy, the Wall of Fire, Thetans, Engrams OR the use of the E-meter is simple logic. This has been done and guess which side lost?

Maybe you could give us your logical assessment of the Xenu story? Just to get you started...

Xenu (play /ˈziːnuː/ ZEE-noo),[1][2][3] also spelled Xemu, was, according to the founder of Scientology L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[4][5] of his people to Earth in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology scriptures hold that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[1][6]​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu
 
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Garrette said:
I've only been lurking, but I find Justinian2's latest reversion to veiled (and not-so-veiled) insults coupled with the fallacious question of credentials very typical of what I have learned of Scientologist tactics and typical of my (admittedly limited) experience with Scientologist's themselves.

He loses on the facts and so goes on the offensive. It doesn't matter how much it is pointed out that his arguments are vacuous, flawed, or non-existent; it doesn't matter that the flaws he claims are within the arguments/positions of his opponents are actually flaws within his own position; it doesn't matter that truth is absent from his side. All that matters is that he win by redirecting attention. He will continue to do so as calmly as the argument allows, but will, if necessary, become vitriolic about it. Both he and Scientology (Free Zone or not) have no shame.

Scientology: The McCarthyism of cons.
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I have been answering questions for about a hundred pages of Scientology discussions spanning this year and last. I have filled pages with answers to questions, but have had very few questions answered.

I am pretty broad minded as to what a person's qualifications could be. A person that has raised children with good success has demonstrated that he can guide another through life. A successful parent has given good advice and is capable of giving good advice.

A medical doctor would also be qualified to give good advice. So would various therapists. A member of AA could have guided others through alcoholism and thus be qualified to give advice on therapy. A honored high school teacher would be qualified to give advice on therapy.

Nobody gave ANY credentials to prove that they had a right to have their opinions respected. These people should not utter opinions. These people should just stick to facts and NOT merely the fact that another unqualified person has given his opinion.
 
Justinian2 said:
Nobody gave ANY credentials to prove that they had a right to have their opinions respected. These people should not utter opinions. These people should just stick to facts and NOT merely the fact that another unqualified person has given his opinion.
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I gave you an opinion from those with credentials. I haven't uttered an opinion, I've stuck to the facts. The FDA emphatically and unequivocally say that there is no medical application of the e-meter. That is backed up by the science. Not opinion.

So, I ask again, what are your credentials for disputing the FDA's findings? Or do you agree with them that the e-meter is medically worthless?
 
Justinian2 said:
I have been answering questions for about a hundred pages of Scientology discussions spanning this year and last. I have filled pages with answers to questions, but have had very few questions answered.

I am pretty broad minded as to what a person's qualifications could be. A person that has raised children with good success has demonstrated that he can guide another through life. A successful parent has given good advice and is capable of giving good advice.

A medical doctor would also be qualified to give good advice. So would various therapists. A member of AA could have guided others through alcoholism and thus be qualified to give advice on therapy. A honored high school teacher would be qualified to give advice on therapy.

Nobody gave ANY credentials to prove that they had a right to have their opinions respected. These people should not utter opinions. These people should just stick to facts and NOT merely the fact that another unqualified person has given his opinion.
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1. I have raised three wonderful children (one is still a minor but is doing quite well). I have been successful in both military and civilian occupations. I am recognized as a minor authority in a couple of my non-professional pursuits. I have credentials.

2. #1 is entirely irrelevant, as are your objections. This is the internet. It could all be made up.

3. It doesn't matter if it isn't made up; the truth rests on facts, not authority.

4. The facts are against you.

5. Credentials are against you. LRH had none and lied about it. He raised no responsible children, got his wife to commit fraud for him then abandoned her for her efforts. He was not a doctor though he pretended to have a doctor's skills.

You continue to dissemble. It doesn't work here. Scientology (and Free Zone) is bunk with the ability to provide value in a few limited areas to exactly the same degree that placebo provides value.
 
Justinian2 said:
I have been answering questions for about a hundred pages of Scientology discussions spanning this year and last. I have filled pages with answers to questions, but have had very few questions answered.

I am pretty broad minded as to what a person's qualifications could be. A person that has raised children with good success has demonstrated that he can guide another through life. A successful parent has given good advice and is capable of giving good advice.

A medical doctor would also be qualified to give good advice. So would various therapists. A member of AA could have guided others through alcoholism and thus be qualified to give advice on therapy. A honored high school teacher would be qualified to give advice on therapy.

Nobody gave ANY credentials to prove that they had a right to have their opinions respected. These people should not utter opinions. These people should just stick to facts and NOT merely the fact that another unqualified person has given his opinion.
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The facts are that the E-meter measures resistance to an electrical current and it does that really badly so the "science" of $cientology is based on a device that doesn't do what it says it does.

The facts are that LRH was a con and a liar and a drunken pill popper who who only interested in making money.

The facts are that thousands of people are being fleeced from their hard earned cash based on a lie.

Can you tell us about Xenu now?
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
This religion/non-religion ran the largest covert infiltration of the U.S. government in history. It was called Operation Snow White, and they had up to 5,000 Scientologists infiltrate the IRS and over a hundred other agencies.

Hubbard's wife went to prison over that, along with about a dozen other high-level conspirators and he had to console himself with the Sea Org girls in hot pants. The footsoldiers were charged with felonies too - like destroying government documents, altering others - if they had been successful then Hubbard's Navy record would have been successfully re-written.

He was named as an unidicted co-conspirator, but he was clever enough to cover his own tracks and throw his wife under the bus. Then he went into hiding.
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Lovely fellow.

I do not understand how anyone can be taken in by the Scientology/Freezone scam. It truly and genuinely boggles my mind.
 
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