Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[dafydd]

Sometimes advertising, propaganda, brainwashing, hypnotism, logical fallacies, peer pressure, confusion and various syndromes are all used. Hitler used cheering groups as part of his propaganda technique.

Logic and fact are perhaps the only two things that are not propaganda.

Still avoiding the questions, I see. It seems that Ron the Con learned a lot from Hitler. He used all the methods that you mention.

 

[Justinian2]

But smart enough to know that $cientology is a dangerous cult. The Aussies know this too.

It's plausible that anybody that knows for sure that there is no god is not very bright. For some reason Belgium is moving away from even the Catholic church and towards over certainty about the structure of the universe.

I think you're dangerous.

 

[elbe]

Sometimes advertising, propaganda, brainwashing, hypnotism, logical fallacies, peer pressure, confusion and various syndromes are all used. Hitler used cheering groups as part of his propaganda technique.

Since that's not really a response to what I said I'm only left with one conclusion:

Are you comparing scientology to hitler?

 

[elbe]

It's plausible that anybody that knows for sure that there is no god is not very bright. For some reason Belgium is moving away from even the Catholic church and towards over certainty about the structure of the universe.

I think you're dangerous.

Personally, I think an organization that has doctrine on how to injure critics is dangerous.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

Interesting that both Justin and Fred seem to follow fairly strict guidelines on how to deal with naysayers. Fred isn't Freezone, correct? Two different methodologies, perhaps? Justin definitely prefers the "look over here at this shiny object/pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" approach, while Fred prefers the "I know you have shown me that Mr. Hubbard is a lying cheat, now to answer your question, may I direct you to this book written by said Mr. Hubbard" approach.

This is fascinating stuff.

 

[Justinian2]

Still avoiding the questions, I see. It seems that Ron the Con learned a lot from Hitler. He used all the methods that you mention.

What society doesn't?

The Freezone is happy without any propaganda - aside from announcements or group communications.

 

[dafydd]

It's plausible that anybody that knows for sure that there is no god is not very bright. For some reason Belgium is moving away from even the Catholic church and towards over certainty about the structure of the universe.
I think you're dangerous.

? for the highlighted bit. I have never been in trouble with the police in my life, I have never been involved in a fight and I even catch flies with a piece of card and a tumbler and release them outside. Your super $cientologist powers have let you down again. When are you going to answer the questions? I think that you are an opponent of $cientology, you are the worst advert for the cult that I have ever seen, outside of Ron the Con and the charlatan who runs it now.

 

[Twiler]

What society doesn't?

The Freezone is happy without any propaganda - aside from announcements or group communications.

So that much propaganda is acceptable?

 

[dafydd]

Interesting that both Justin and Fred seem to follow fairly strict guidelines on how to deal with naysayers. Fred isn't Freezone, correct? Two different methodologies, perhaps? Justin definitely prefers the "look over here at this shiny object/pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" approach, while Fred prefers the "I know you have shown me that Mr. Hubbard is a lying cheat, now to answer your question, may I direct you to this book written by said Mr. Hubbard" approach.

This is fascinating stuff.

Yes, the psychology of the Freezone/$cientology is interesting, and will warn any wavering lurkers to stay well away from the cult. Thank you, Justinian and fred. You're doing a grand job.

 

[dafydd]

Personally, I think an organization that has doctrine on how to injure critics is dangerous.

Justinian is avoiding that sort of thing like the plague.

 

[tsig]

Sometimes advertising, propaganda, brainwashing, hypnotism, logical fallacies, peer pressure, confusion and various syndromes are all used. Hitler used cheering groups as part of his propaganda technique. Logic and fact are perhaps the only two things that are not propaganda.

So LRon = Hitler?

 

[elbe]

Justinian is avoiding that sort of thing like the plague.

Just because it's doctrinal doesn't mean I believe all it's members agree with it, or even think it's still valid.

Of course avoiding uncomfortable topics is status quo for scientologists, right?

 

[dafydd]

So LRon = Hitler?

Not quite. Hitler actually was wounded in a war, so he didn't have to lie about it, unlike Ron the Con.

 

[elbe]

Not quite. Hitler actually was wounded in a war, so he didn't have to lie about it, unlike Ron the Con.

He was also liked in Germany

 

[dafydd]

''The Scientology organization likes to demand that their messiah L. Ron Hubbard was a war hero and that he was seriously wounded in battle to the point where his recovery was a miracle. The whole reason for making the claim that Hubbard experienced a miracle of healing is because the organization wants people to believe that Hubbard's "science of the mind" was what cured him. (And thus begins the basis of Scientology quack medical frauds.) Indeed, the organization makes these and many other like-minded claims on a number of their web pages. Reproduced here in Fair Use extract from one of their web pages we find the organization stating these very claims:

When the US entered World War II (1), Mr. Hubbard was commissioned as a lieutenant (2) (junior grade) in the US Navy (3) and served as a commander of corvettes. (4) He saw action in both the Atlantic (5) and Pacific, (6) and thoroughly distinguished himself in the eyes of those who served beneath him. (7) Yet he was not a man who enjoyed war, (8) and having seen enough killing to last him a lifetime (9) -- and the effects of that bloodshed on men's sanity (10) -- he vowed to redouble his efforts to create a saner world. (11) With this same sense of compassion, he also did all he could to safeguard his crews... (12)
http://www.whatisscientology.org/to/part01/chp03/pg0118.html

I numbered the claims. Out of the 12 claims in that one sentence, we find that there are 8 outright lies which we'll get to. For now, let's take a look at how the Scientology organization continues to represent Hubbard's war record:

In 1945, left partially blind with injured optic nerves (13) and lame from hip and back injuries, (14) Mr. Hubbard was hospitalized at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital in Oakland, California. (15) Among the 5,000 naval and Marine Corps patients at Oak Knoll (16) were hundreds of former American prisoners liberated from Japanese camps on South Pacific islands. (17) Many were in terrible condition from starvation and other causes, unable to assimilate protein. (18)

So complete was his recovery, (19) that officers from the Naval Retiring Board reviewing Lt. Hubbard's case were actually upset. (20) After all, they reasoned, how could a man physically shot to pieces at the end of the war (21) pass his full physical examination? (22) The only answer, they concluded, was that L. Ron Hubbard must be somebody else. (23) And when they found that all was in order, they designated him fit for active duty. (24)

These claims might be forgiven if Hubbard's Navy record wasn't a matter of public record, available through the Freedom of Information Act. Hubbard was a pathological liar and a con man so it would be understandable if the Scientology organization accepted his bizarre claims at face value. Unfortunately, however, Hubbard's war record is available to anyone who submits FOIA requests for them and the Scientology organization has done just that. Instead of accepting the fact that their messiah was a pathological liar and a con man, the Scientology organization promptly labeled their mad messiah's Navy record a forgery.

So what does Hubbard's war record really look like? Researcher Mr. Chris Owens decided to find out and, after acquiring all of the available Navy records, he wrote a book covering the truth about Hubbard's war record, a book called Ron The War Hero which offers all of the detailed. And yes, Scientology is once again proven to be deliberate liars. A review of the 28 claims they make in the extracts above breaks down this way: ''

More here.

http://www.cosvm.org/warhero.htm

 

[dafydd]

What is rarely discussed, however, is Hubbard's secret
teachings, which disclose his thoughts on why mankind has been
plagued by problems through history, the topic of the disputed
documents.

Generally, the documents suggest that a major cause of mankind's
problems began 75 million years ago, when the planet Earth, then
called Teegeeach, was part of a confederation of 90 planets under
the leadership of a tyrannical ruler named Xemu. Then, as now, the
materials state, the chief problem was overpopulation.

Xemu, the documents state, decided to take radical measures to
overcome the overpopulation problem. Beings were captured on Earth
and on other planets and flown to at least 10 volcanoes on Earth.

The documents state that H-bombs far more powerful than any in
existence today were dropped on the volcanoes, destroying the people
but freeing their spirits, called "thetans," which attached
themselves to one another in clusters.

After the nuclear explosions, according to the documents, the
thetans were trapped in a compound of frozen alcohol and glycol and,
during a 36-day period, Xemu "implanted" in them the seeds of
aberrant behavior for generations to come. When people die, those
clusters attach to to other humans and keep perpetuating themselves.

Before a Scientologist can learn about thetans and how to
eradicate them, he must go through a progression of costly programs.

For hours on Monday, Scientologists swamped workers in the
clerk's office with hundreds of requests to photocopy the documents.

Superior Court Judge Alfred L. Margolis, over strong objections,
had issued an order Friday making the documents public at 9 a.m.
Monday - on a first-come, first-served basis.

Scientologists, by snaking the line through three courthouse
hallways, made sure that they were the only ones to buy copies of the
materials.

Shortly before noon, Margolis, at the request of Scientology
lawyers, resealed the materials, pending a hearing later this week.

Jeff Pomerantz, a Scientology spokesman, said the strategy was
intended to "keep the materials secure ... Religion is not supposed
to be disseminated from the courtroom."

http://www.skeptictank.org/files//skeptic/scient4d.htm

 

[Justinian2]

There are about 5 Fifteen thousand word encyclopedias worth of information at my disposal. I, however, draw my answers from in addition to 40 years experience in Scientology because it gives a personal touch to the information and it provides a synopsis - you don't want to read a book or I presume you would have.

Clambake has much hearsay information in their archives. There are also several books on Scientology written from dissatisfied customers.

The Freezone uses a rundown to audit out Miscaviges' Church of Scientology It gets fantastic results. We know EXACTLY what all the problems are.

 

[The Dark Lord]

There are about 5 Fifteen thousand word encyclopedias worth of information at my disposal. I, however, draw my answers from in addition to 40 years experience in Scientology because it gives a personal touch to the information and it provides a synopsis - you don't want to read a book or I presume you would have.

Clambake has much hearsay information in their archives. There are also several books on Scientology written from dissatisfied customers.

The Freezone uses a rundown to audit out Miscaviges' Church of Scientology It gets fantastic results. We know EXACTLY what all the problems are.

Freezone still uses the same garbage that a lunatic con man pulled out of his ass. So it is worthless.

 

[marplots]

It's getting harder to come up with any useful counters to the culty-Scientology story, especially since I've been reading (still!) some of the links given out here. However, I've had one eye out for "true claims" and think I've found a couple.

Here are two things Scientology does that shouldn't be too hard to prove as "working as intended to produce real-world results."

The first is using lawyers to sue people into submission.

The second is the policy of disconnecting from troublemakers to keep others from voicing dissent and criticism.

 

[dafydd]

The Freezone uses a rundown to audit out Miscaviges' Church of Scientology It gets fantastic results. We know EXACTLY what all the problems are.

Yea, right. Are you still watching me? That must be a good experience for you. People often say that I have the physiognomy and physique of a Greek god.