Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[dafydd]

"I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys." - L. Ron Hubbard in a 1967 letter to his wife, written during the period when he was creating Scientology's secret "upper levels." (Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. a.k.a. Ronald DeWolf, "L. RON HUBBARD: MESSIAH OR MADMAN?" Random House 1989)

Amusing to see the cult members here trying to defend $cientology. I wonder if Justinian is still watching me? I didn't know that being a super-duper OT clear Thetan gave one the power of remote viewing mixed with x-ray vision. Money well spent, Justinian.



And this is total bollocks.

"Arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalogue of illnesses goes away and stays away." L. Ron Hubbard, DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH, 1987 Ed., p. 72

 

[dafydd]

Why is that a helpful question? Homeopathy says things that are true, as does the Da Vinci Code.

He meant the claims about curing diseases and gaining super powers.

 

[shuttlt]

It's a made-up wacko ''religion'' so everything about it is a lie.

Now, now. Some of it must surely be true, if not by chance alone, then because it would be easier to occasionally fall back on the truth. Having everything about it be a lie would be even more challenging than writing Christmas using none of the right letters. Look at Christianity, it uses real places and at least some real events and real people. I believe even the book of Mormon occasionally mentions things that are variably true in at least some small way.

 

[dafydd]

Now, now. Some of it must surely be true, if not by chance alone, then because it would be easier to occasionally fall back on the truth. Having everything about it be a lie would be even more challenging than writing Christmas using none of the right letters. Look at Christianity, it uses real places and at least some real events and real people. I believe even the book of Mormon occasionally mentions things that are variably true in at least some small way.

I would be very interested to hear which bits of $cientology are true. I've never come across anything.

 

[shuttlt]

He meant the claims about curing diseases and gaining super powers.

He hasn't meant that in previous posts. He's meant things like - make people feel better about themselves. Perhaps, as you say, he now means astral project back to their past life in ancient Egypt to watch aliens building the pyramids.

 

[dafydd]

Now, now. Some of it must surely be true, if not by chance alone, then because it would be easier to occasionally fall back on the truth. Having everything about it be a lie would be even more challenging than writing Christmas using none of the right letters. Look at Christianity, it uses real places and at least some real events and real people. I believe even the book of Mormon occasionally mentions things that are variably true in at least some small way.

Lots of truth here.

http://listverse.com/2007/07/28/top-8-levels-of-scientology/

 

[dafydd]

He hasn't meant that in previous posts. He's meant things like - make people feel better about themselves.

By being conned by a crackpot cult? Each to their own I suppose.

 

[shuttlt]

I would be very interested to hear which bits of $cientology are true. I've never come across anything.

I've never read any of it. So I really couldn't say. I know parts of the Xenu thing take place on Earth, so I'm optimistic some (when I say "some", I mean a line here, half a sentence there) of it will approximate to real events. Perhaps not, in which case it's beats the book of Mormon.

Really though, all the more self-helpy, talking cure stuff. I wouldn't be stunned if there were true statements scattered in there.

It just seems like a high bar to set, saying none of it is true.

 

[shuttlt]

Lots of truth here.

http://listverse.com/2007/07/28/top-8-levels-of-scientology/

Lots of small mundane truths muddled in with huge great untruths.

 

[fredcarr]

Would you say, then, that one can be a full practicing Scientologist simply by taking part only in the free services at a Scientology church - maybe reading some books, listening to some lectures and attending the free Sunday services? That there would be no pressure to sign up for courses and/or auditing?

Further, can I get the full benefits of Scientology and never have to spend a dime or be in the employ of the Church? Like I can in say, Catholicism where I can be Baptized, participate in Communion, go to Mass, get counseling from the Priest, be married, be annointed when sick, send my kids to Sunday school and be assured of eternal salvation and never have to pay a dime if I plead poverty?

And what portion would you say that is?

Let's say I don't want to be an auditor, I just want to go OT. What's the ratio of time spent studying the works vs. time spent auditing? Isn't auditing the ONLY way to go OT? Or can I just study the works?

1. Sure - In years past Ive heard of people using Scientology for years and never having set foot in a church. Nowadays there are courses one can take online for free and using the principles therein be a volunteer minister for life.

2. But to be a fully ordained minister will take doing a course in a church.

3. Approx 99.99 % of all of Mr. Hubbards writings are available to anyone to learn and apply.

4. I supposes one could do most of the things mentioned above and never spend a dime. Seems a bit weird to me the idea that a parishioner would never contribute anything to his church but I think I get the point.

I have donated tons of my own time (and money) helping others and have never asked for anything in return. I'm willing to help most anyone. All they have to do is ask. That's pretty typical of most religions I would think.

I also have done many classes (course) at my church and have donated funds to do so. Happily I might add.

One could conceivable find a partner and and apply the counseling principles to another back and forth and never set foot in a church. I have no idea how affective this would be or how long it would take. You might not spend a dime but it will still take a significant investment in effort and time.

I've met people that have done that as well. Its actually a good question to raise and one that we are working on solving. How do we deliver the Subject of Scientology to all the peoples of Earth? We have huge translations project in place and I think we have finally made some serious inroads on translating some of the more fundamental scripture into chinese.

New facilities we have put in place make producing lectures and books far cheaper than when they were originally recorded/written.

Maybe a third to two thirds of the Scientology scriptures discuss the application of the subject to attaining the goal of Scientology as laid out above. As you can probably tell I really don't know the percentage.

 

[The Dark Lord]

I believe LRon lifted large amounts of Dianetics from various sources. So it wouldn't be any surprise is some of it turned out to be true. I am not sure, having never read the garbage myself.

 

[fredcarr]

It's when you do it in lieu of answering questions. As you rightly say, people can read the books for themselves. When people ask you a question they want to know what you think, not what L. Ron Hubbard wrote 50-60 years ago while (according to a letter he wrote to his wife at the time) drinking alcohol and popping pills.

I do answer with what I think.

 

[dafydd]

I believe LRon lifted large amounts of Dianetics from various sources. So it wouldn't be any surprise is some of it turned out to be true. I am not sure, having never read the garbage myself.

I did. Years ago. It's total babble from the looney bin. But it made Ron the Con money.

 

[shuttlt]

I believe LRon lifted large amounts of Dianetics from various sources. So it wouldn't be any surprise is some of it turned out to be true. I am not sure, having never read the garbage myself.

Amazing, there are claims that Joseph Smith did the exact same thing with the book or Mormon.

 

[dafydd]

I do answer with what I think.

No. It's what the cult makes you think.

 

[fredcarr]

I believe LRon lifted large amounts of Dianetics from various sources. So it wouldn't be any surprise is some of it turned out to be true. I am not sure, having never read the garbage myself.

Belief is a wonderful thing

 

[dafydd]

Belief is a wonderful thing

I have read it, as I said. Very funny book.

 

[fredcarr]

No. It's what the cult makes you think.

\

Not to be argumentative but how would you prove that?

 

[The Dark Lord]

3. Approx 99.99 % of all of Mr. Hubbards writings are available to anyone to learn and apply.

But that doesn't include Xenu and the other OT material, does it? You have to spend years and hundreds of thousands of dollar to hear that garbage.

 

[fredcarr]

I did. Years ago. It's total babble from the looney bin. But it made Ron the Con money.

So did you disagree with the primary point of the book?