There is. I looked over a number of your posts (not all of them) which covered a lot of different points.
I could be mistaken but it seems like one of the questions your asking is this: If we assume Scientologists are not all brain-washed cultists who have some degree of independence then what is it in Scientology they find valuable?
I saw some discussion of "workability" which I think answers the question from my perspective. Various principles learned and applied make it easier to play this game we call life. Having been a Scientologist for over three decades I find that is a simple summary.
Ah, very good. I hope that means you can answer some questions that I've raised in an attempt to add clarity to Justinian2's statements regarding Operating Thetan cause over MEST.
First, Justinian said this:
At OTVIII, a person is starting to learn how to be cause over MEST for the other dynamics.
Actually, everyone is able to effect the other dynamics. Even a jerk (Holms) can negatively effect the other dynamics.
Being able to surgically effect the other dynamics for the better requires constant learning and practice.
I am not complete cause over all MEST. It would be easier if I was a billionaire, but that misses the point too.
I don't want to be complete cause over all MEST because then I wouldn't have a game to play. A man needs some challenges. Maybe this thought is my Achilles heel. Maybe I don't want to responsible for everybody. Perhaps others also don't want me to be responsible for them.
Because the only example of cause over MEST in the other dynamics that Justinian mentioned there was Holmes' (the Aurora shooter's) actions, I inquired whether his methods (using his hands to operate guns to fire bullets to injure and kill people) were representative of all OT cause over MEST. Not that they'd use only guns; I gather that that represents the more general concept of using one's hands and limbs to manipulate objects and operate tools. The thing I don't understand is, everyone (barring severe physical or mental disabilities) can do that, and they "start to learn how" in early childhood. As an example, I mentioned using hands and tools to replace a poorly functioning toilet, this surgically affecting multiple higher dynamics for the better for a long period of time, and yet not requiring any OT training. Justinian2 responded:
That would certainly be cause over MEST that a clear might have at 4.0 (enthusiasm) on the tone scale. If it made you happy, then it was a moment at clear.
An OT can effect changes just by thinking about them when he is really, really up tone. Denial and anger don't produce OT changes.
(emphasis added)
I then asked for examples of what kind of changes an OT can make just by thinking about them:
This is not clear (in the normal English sense of the word: having unambiguous meaning).
What kind of changes can an OT effect just by thinking about them? Can you give some examples?
And what constraints does the need to be "really really up tone" place on this ability? For each example of a possible change you provide, can you also include an estimate of what percent of the time an OT is likely to be sufficiently up tone to achieve it?
Justinian's response was mostly about Christian prayer, which seems a change of subject, but he also said:
What happens to me, more often than not, is that an OT postulate gets converted to inspiration.
I asked what that means. What are OT postulates and what does it mean for one to get converted to inspiration?
Also, inspiration is a phenomenon of the mind; is it reasonable to infer that those OT abilities that can be effected only by thinking about them apply only to the OT's own mind? This would not be surprising, as it conforms to beliefs of some other mystical traditions regarding the nature and limitations of mental powers or "magic."
These are important questions that would provide considerable insight about what Justinian is claiming. Yet these went unanswered, except for this comment:
Sometimes OT phenomena are like the things that happen in Matrix.
A lot of the benefit from the OT levels comes from the setups. Some comes from a feeling that you are less helpless to an understanding of the OT realm.
But,
The Matrix depicts a great number of different phenomena, many of them ordinary. I several times asked Justinian2 to specify some examples of which things that happen in the Matrix he was referring to. That query, too, went unanswered.
I also noted that the final paragraph once again describes the effect as an alteration in a "feeling" -- that is, again, something within the OT's own mind. This seems to confirm my hypothesis that OT causes over MEST, or at least those that can be effected only by thinking about them while in a sufficiently high-toned state, are mental phenomena, not physical ones.
Can you provide the specifics and examples that Justinian2 has apparently declined to?
- What does it mean for an OT postulate to be converted into inspiration?
- Which things, specifically, that happen in The Matrix are OT phenomena like?
- From Justinian2's comments above, it appears reasonable to conclude that OT cause over MEST either involves the use of the body and tools to manipulate matter in the ordinary way, or creates effects that occur only within the mind of the OT. So far, all examples provided fit into one or the other of those two categories. Do you agree with that assessment? If not, can you provide an example that does not fit into either of those two categories?
Respectfully,
Myriad
