Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[Justinian2]

I've spent 40 years with Scientology and only 12 years with the public school system.

Suppose I didn't attend the public school system at all, let alone the public school system in your country. Suddenly I started acting like I knew everything about your school and I hadn't even been in your country. What would you think of me?

Say that I accused you of making things up that your studied. Perhaps I was saying that things you studied couldn't have happened, what would you think of me?

 

[marplots]

Mentioned as beneficial or asserted as being beneficial, marplots?

Both.

Did you see the link I posted on the Anderson report?

I think so. The volume of material on offer is, frankly, overwhelming. The material from the Bunker interview ran two parts and perhaps 12 screens per part -- I only know because I read the whole thing.

I fear I won't be able to view everything without an assistant.

In any case, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VNQ3Y2EruBI

talks about the development of auditing from about 22 minutes onward.

More about e-meters

http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com.es/2010/06/more-on-scientology-e-meter.html
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=e-meter
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/ebay-emeter.htm

...On numerous occasions, Headley writes about the fabrication of "e-meters," the small devices that are supposed to work something like lie detectors. Scientologist auditors use them in counseling sessions, but they're also used during interrogations -- called "sec checks" -- during which church workers suspected of wrongdoing are pressured to confess their "crimes."

Headley mentions that the devices cost the church about $40 to make, but were then sold for about $3,000 each. What really caught our attention was Headley's assertion that Miscavige demanded that enough of a new line of e-meters be manufactured so that every member in the world could purchase two of them. (Headley says each working Scientologist is supposed to have a backup unit in case the other fails.)...

[/quote]

Thanks. I should point out that lie detectors are being used all across the country by police agencies although I understand they aren't very good at detecting lies.

Of late, I've become mired in a series of videos about confrontational style protests with Scientologists.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I've spent 40 years with Scientology and only 12 years with the public school system.

Suppose I didn't attend the public school system at all, let alone the public school system in your country. Suddenly I started acting like I knew everything about your school and I hadn't even been in your country. What would you think of me?

Say that I accused you of making things up that your studied. Perhaps I was saying that things you studied couldn't have happened, what would you think of me?

That depends. Would I answer the very reasonable questions that you'd ask about things that I had studied, or would I studiously ignore any questions about what, exactly, it is that I was claiming went on in the public school system? If I were answering questions, then I'd have thought that there would be no need for you to make any kind of judgement, as you could simply ask more questions. If I were studiously ignoring any questions, then I think you'd be justified in not just taking my word for it.

With that in mind, why don't you answer Myriad's questions?

 

[dafydd]

I've spent 40 years with Scientology and only 12 years with the public school system.

Suppose I didn't attend the public school system at all, let alone the public school system in your country. Suddenly I started acting like I knew everything about your school and I hadn't even been in your country. What would you think of me?

Say that I accused you of making things up that your studied. Perhaps I was saying that things you studied couldn't have happened, what would you think of me?

There are enough whistle blowers who have left the cult and commented on scientology. We know what the cult does to people.

 

[Justinian2]

If anyone needs a good laugh.

http://listverse.com/2007/07/28/top-8-levels-of-scientology/

There you go again, pretending to know something you don't. You know absolutely nothing about Scientology.

The first level is Life Repair. This is done with Two Way Comm. I've already described this level and how it is done with the Emeter. I've described how the charge is quickly accessed and discharged. I've described how ordinary conversation could be hurtful while this produces life altering change.

This is only the first part of the lowest level and it already exceeds anything done by the professionals.

 

[GT/CS]

Have you read anything on how cults operate?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

There you go again, pretending to know something you don't. You know absolutely nothing about Scientology.

The first level is Life Repair. This is done with Two Way Comm. I've already described this level and how it is done with the Emeter. I've described how the charge is quickly accessed and discharged. I've described how ordinary conversation could be hurtful while this produces life altering change.

This is only the first part of the lowest level and it already exceeds anything done by the professionals.

Cool. While you're in an explaining mood, why don't you answer Myriad's questions?

 

[dafydd]

The first level is Life Repair. This is done with Two Way Comm. I've already described this level and how it is done with the Emeter. I've described how the charge is quickly accessed and discharged. I've described how ordinary conversation could be hurtful while this produces life altering change.

This is only the first part of the lowest level and it already exceeds anything done by the professionals.

Bollocks. Sheer nonsense. These imaginary scientologist terms are really most amusing. I know quite a lot about scientology, actually. In the 1960's I was a big Incredible String Band fan. Robin Williamson and Mike Heron got involved with the cult for a while, and were very vocal about it. They came to their senses after a year or two. I was a fan, so I investigated scientology and soon found out that it was bunk.

 

[dafydd]

Cool. While you're in an explaining mood, why don't you answer Myriad's questions?

There is no chance of that happening. All we will get is scientologist gobbledygook.

 

[Justinian2]

Have you read anything on how cults operate?

The military is a splendid example of a cult.

I've already given a link explaining this.

 

[dafydd]

 

[dafydd]

http://exscientologykids.com/

An interesting site set up by children of cult members who have broken their programing. the children, I mean, not the gullible parents.

 

[dafydd]

The military is a splendid example of a cult.

I've already given a link explaining this.

The military is not a pay as you go cult, unlike scientology.

 

[ddt]

Thanks. I should point out that lie detectors are being used all across the country by police agencies although I understand they aren't very good at detecting lies.

The use of the polylgraph is very much an American phenomenon. Pretty much the rest of the world thinks it's unreliable. And the E-meter is only a crude approximation of the polygraph.

 

[dafydd]

The use of the polylgraph is very much an American phenomenon. Pretty much the rest of the world thinks it's unreliable. And the E-meter is only a crude approximation of the polygraph.

Ron the Con auditing a plant. He can't even see the dial.

 

[pakeha]

I've spent 40 years with Scientology and only 12 years with the public school system.

Suppose I didn't attend the public school system at all, let alone the public school system in your country. Suddenly I started acting like I knew everything about your school and I hadn't even been in your country. What would you think of me?

Say that I accused you of making things up that your studied. Perhaps I was saying that things you studied couldn't have happened, what would you think of me?

What does this have to do with the thread, Justinian?
Would you like to tell us about how it makes you feel that we 'wogs' are interested in what you have to say about the CoS, even though you're a 'squirrel'?

...The first level is Life Repair. This is done with Two Way Comm. I've already described this level and how it is done with the Emeter. ...This is only the first part of the lowest level and it already exceeds anything done by the professionals.

The auditing at Life Repair is done by people who have what level?

The military is a splendid example of a cult.

I've already given a link explaining this.

So you have, Justinian.
Now, how about you stop free-wheeling and settle into answering some of the questions we've posed?
You claim to be an OTVII and you admit to being a 'squirrel', so I feel you must have a unique view point to share here.
I'm not the only one who has dedicated time and energy to learning about the CoS you escaped from.
I'd really like to learn more from your experience!

 

[marplots]

The use of the polylgraph is very much an American phenomenon. Pretty much the rest of the world thinks it's unreliable. And the E-meter is only a crude approximation of the polygraph.

Well, unreliable doesn't have to come in degrees. If the polygraph doesn't detect lies, and the e-meter doesn't detect what it's supposed to detect, using the same principles, we have the same question about purpose. If you don't have any confidence in the results, it hardly matters whether you call it a polygraph or have someone balance a rock on their head.

Which makes me wonder what else might be going on. Are they used for the same thing, to elicit something from the person being questioned?

 

[Marcus]

An interesting clip from a previous link about someone who left Scientology: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/failed-mission-review/ (end of blog post):



Some of the worst critics of the church still hold that Mr. Hubbard's teachings are worthwhile -- a separation of the method from the current church leadership.

This person (as far as I can tell) isn't involved in Freezone. What's interesting to me is that of those who you'd think would be most informed about the "con," ex-higher ups, we sometimes see praise for Scientology the method, if not Scientology the church.

That is an amazing bit of fiction. Arguably some of the most compelling writing ever. Maybe not on par with the Bible, but we don't know what the next thousand years will bring...

"Amazing" and "most compelling ever" may be going a bit far, but I do give him credit for being a talented con man. I think that label is appropriate because he didn't simply set out to make money by selling a service, that would just be business. He invented not only the service he wanted to sell, but the problems it supposedly cured.

If you really believed in an Argumentum Ad Populum, you would be a member of one of the worlds major religions, how could billions of people be wrong?

 

[dafydd]

It seems to annoy scientologists when others have their own opinions. It's a control freak cult.

 

[dafydd]

Well, unreliable doesn't have to come in degrees. If the polygraph doesn't detect lies, and the e-meter doesn't detect what it's supposed to detect, using the same principles, we have the same question about purpose. If you don't have any confidence in the results, it hardly matters whether you call it a polygraph or have someone balance a rock on their head.

Which makes me wonder what else might be going on. Are they used for the same thing, to elicit something from the person being questioned?

Four thousand dollars per machine, it seems. Or a big auditing fee.