And the boats keep coming

[Akhenaten]

I am not aware of the context here. What reasons have been given for taking this action?

Alfie finds it convenient to avoid mentioning a few little details.

viz

"People are leaving Indonesia and expecting an escort."

Apart from this being just a bit more of the same old rhetoric, this boat was actually rescued NW of Bali, approximately 1,400 kilometres from Australia. It can't legitimately even be said to have left Indonesia, and it's anybody's guess as to how Alfie was able to determine the expectations of the passengers.​

"One last week was a joke:"

But we'll use it as an indictment of the Prime Minister anyway.​

"the boat was still in Indonesian waters when Australian authorities were contaced for a rescue."

This is Alfiespeak for "an ABC reporter in Jakarta contacted the boat and in response to the conversation he had with some of the passengers notified the Indonesian authorities who effected a rescue.​

Here's a link, including a transcript of the actual "SOS" call.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Alfie finds it convenient to avoid mentioning a few little details.
viz

"People are leaving Indonesia and expecting an escort."

Apart from this being just a bit more of the same old rhetoric, this boat was actually rescued NW of Bali, approximately 1,400 kilometres from Australia. It can't legitimately even be said to have left Indonesia,

Correct

and it's anybody's guess as to how Alfie was able to determine the expectations of the passengers.

Not hard to guess, it's actually stated outright in the first few paragraphs of your link as well as the transcript of the conversation:

"ASYLUM seekers on a crippled boat tried a new tactic to reach Australia yesterday - asking an ABC reporter to send help from Australia.

But their request backfired when the ABC correspondent sent Indonesian rescue authorities to the aid of the boat, just a short distance off Bali at the time.

The passengers protested, saying they wanted to be rescued only by Australian authorities. But last night they were taken to an Indonesian island against their wishes".

"One last week was a joke:"

But we'll use it as an indictment of the Prime Minister anyway.​

If the market were closed, the customers would stop coming.

"the boat was still in Indonesian waters when Australian authorities were contaced for a rescue."

This is Alfiespeak for "an ABC reporter in Jakarta contacted the boat and in response to the conversation he had with some of the passengers notified the Indonesian authorities who effected a rescue.​

My mistake - I misspoke: it was a reporter being asked to contact Australian authorities.​

 

[Sideroxylon]

Thanks for that, Akhenaten.

No, don't think I can pin that one on the PM. Couldn't see how Scott Morrison could justify his claim that: "This is just further evidence of how ridiculous border protection has become under Labor's water taxi service policy for illegal boats."

 

[Sideroxylon]

If the market were closed, the customers would stop coming.

And how do you propose that could be done? You make it sound so simple.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

You first:

Do you clear Gillard of any and all responsibility?

 

[Sideroxylon]

You first:

Do you clear Gillard of any and all responsibility?

For the number of boats arriving? Can we blame her for that? If so, how?

I am not here for a pointless adversarial debate. I would prefer to see the issue explored honestly.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

For the number of boats arriving? Can we blame her for that? If so, how?

Asked and answered already.

I am not here for a pointless adversarial debate. I would prefer to see the issue explored honestly.

If you really do wish an honest discussion, then you should have no problem answering a simple question as to whether she is responsible for
a/ the circumstances we find ourselves in and
b/ fixing it.

Is she responsible or not? Or do you (and others) absolve her of any wrongdoing/error in judgement and the responsibility Australia's position in it?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Asked and answered already.



If you really do wish an honest discussion, then you should have no problem answering a simple question as to whether she is responsible for
a/ the circumstances we find ourselves in and
b/ fixing it.

Is she responsible or not? Or do you (and others) absolve her of any wrongdoing/error in judgement and the responsibility Australia's position in it?

Like I said, I am not here for a debate. I would rather be informed.

If you have made your case for the PM's responsibility for the "circumstances we find ourselves in" then consider me so far unconvinced.

 

[Akhenaten]

Thanks for that, Akhenaten.

No, don't think I can pin that one on the PM. Couldn't see how Scott Morrison could justify his claim that: "This is just further evidence of how ridiculous border protection has become under Labor's water taxi service policy for illegal boats."

It seems that for some, Australia's border protection should consist of putting a fence around Indonesia (about 100 metres inland from the beach seems a preferred option) and they become quite indignant that neither the Prime Minister nor the Indonesian government are falling over themselves to implement their wonderful plan.

 

[Noztradamus]

Correct



Not hard to guess, it's actually stated outright in the first few paragraphs of your link as well as the transcript of the conversation:

"ASYLUM seekers on a crippled boat tried a new tactic to reach Australia yesterday - asking an ABC reporter to send help from Australia.

But their request backfired when the ABC correspondent sent Indonesian rescue authorities to the aid of the boat, just a short distance off Bali at the time.

The passengers protested, saying they wanted to be rescued only by Australian authorities. But last night they were taken to an Indonesian island against their wishes".

Do the people smugglers give refunds?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

It seems that for some, Australia's border protection should consist of putting a fence around Indonesia (about 100 metres inland from the beach seems a preferred option) and they become quite indignant that neither the Prime Minister nor the Indonesian government are falling over themselves to implement their wonderful plan.

Utter rubbish and you know it.

My two issues around this are, and always have been that people are dying getting here and others miss out.

The dramatic increase number of boats will increase proportionally the number of deaths.

The number of boat arrivals (on current numbers) will all but consume 100% of our humanitarian intake for 2012.

 

[DC]

maybe she has a solution but the cost–benefit analysis isn't precise enough yet.

 

[Noztradamus]

maybe she has a solution but the cost–benefit analysis isn't precise enough yet.

Julia doesn't understand the concept of "cost–benefit analysis".

 

[Damien Evans]

Julia doesn't understand the concept of "cost–benefit analysis".

I'd be very surprised if that's the case. She was a pretty good Lawyer before she became an MP you know.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

I'd be very surprised if that's the case. She was a pretty good Lawyer before she became an MP you know.

Why do you think she was a "pretty good lawyer"?
Peter Gordon (Slater and Gordon) claims he sacked her when he discovered fraud. Fraud, that is around the Wilson story which is getting legs again - Robert McLelland raised this matter again recently in parliament and it saw two journalists sacked last year. Some allege Gillard was the recipient of some of the fraudulent proceeds - she denies this; but she does have form on not telling the truth. Side bar, Wilson was also the father of her terminated pregnancy around the same time.

But I guess a lawyer who is good at fraud is a good lawyer.....
Conversely a lawyer that is good, would not have had the fraud found out.

So... why do you think she was a good lawyer?

 

[Akhenaten]

It seems that for some, Australia's border protection should consist of putting a fence around Indonesia (about 100 metres inland from the beach seems a preferred option) and they become quite indignant that neither the Prime Minister nor the Indonesian government are falling over themselves to implement their wonderful plan.

Utter rubbish and you know it.

Rubbish like your claim that Australia has no border protection?

Rubbish like your claim that people are leaving Indonesia expecting an Australian escort?

Rubbish like your claim that answering a call from an ABC reporter in Jakarta means "Australian authorities were contaced for a rescue"?

My two issues around this are, and always have been that people are dying getting here and others miss out.

Then you should try to frame your posts so that they reflect those issues as being your main concern rather than appearing to do little more than endlessly reiterate, as they do now, your abiding hatred of Julia Gillard.

The dramatic increase number of boats will increase proportionally the number of deaths.

That's Indonesia's fault for allowing the operation of unseaworthy vessels with unqualified crews.

I suggest you contact Jakarta immediately and demand answers, just as you are so fond of doing here.

The number of boat arrivals (on current numbers) will all but consume 100% of our humanitarian intake for 2012.

Job done, then.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Rubbish like your claim that Australia has no border protection?

An exaggeration, sure. Sue me.

Rubbish like your claim that people are leaving Indonesia expecting an Australian escort?

I think we saw that at least some expect one. In fact, it was your very own link that did that for me. Cheers.

Rubbish like your claim that answering a call from an ABC reporter in Jakarta means "Australian authorities were contaced for a rescue"?

You must have missed where I noted my error and corrected myself.

Then you should try to frame your posts so that they reflect those issues as being your main concern rather than appearing to do little more than endlessly reiterate, as they do now, your abiding hatred of Julia Gillard.

I'm clever enough to do both.

That's Indonesia's fault for allowing the operation of unseaworthy vessels with unqualified crews.

I don't recall blaming Indonesia.






]

 

[Akhenaten]

Rubbish like your claim that Australia has no border protection?

An exaggeration, sure. Sue me.

I prefer to make my point by answering your rhetoric, hyperbole and sophistry in kind, thank you very much.

Rubbish like your claim that people are leaving Indonesia expecting an Australian escort?

I think we saw that at least some expect one. In fact, it was your very own link that did that for me. Cheers.

What my link showed was that the group in question wanted to be rescued by Australia rather than by Indonesia.

Your hyperbolising that into a claim that people are leaving Indonesia with an expectation of an Australian escort was a fatal weakness in your argument the first time you did it - attempting to continue in the same vein now is simply absurd.

Rubbish like your claim that answering a call from an ABC reporter in Jakarta means "Australian authorities were contaced for a rescue"?

You must have missed where I noted my error and corrected myself.

No, I didn't miss it, because it didn't happen. I was the one who noticed your error and corrected it.

You can try to count your subsequent attempt to handwave while backpedalling as self-correction if you wish, but I don't think anyone else will buy it.

In any case, what I did miss was your explanation for your failure to do some fact checking of your own before you posted the fantasy that you did.

Which post was that in?

Then you should try to frame your posts so that they reflect those issues as being your main concern rather than appearing to do little more than endlessly reiterate, as they do now, your abiding hatred of Julia Gillard.

I'm clever enough to do both.

Accroche-toi à ton rêve.

That's Indonesia's fault for allowing the operation of unseaworthy vessels with unqualified crews.

I don't recall blaming Indonesia.

Nor do I. And?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

I prefer to make my point by answering your rhetoric, hyperbole and sophistry in kind, thank you very much.

No sweat, just trying to be helpful

What my link showed was that the group in question wanted to be rescued by Australia rather than by Indonesia.

That's a might sharp razor you have there.... for the hair splitting I mean.

No, I didn't miss it, because it didn't happen. I was the one who noticed your error and corrected it.

Indeed you were, perhaps I should have said "acknowledged" my error. Whatever.

Accroche-toi à ton rêve.

It's all I have left.

Nor do I. And?

I misread - it's been a very long day today.

You blame Indonesia? Nothing for Gillard? Surely she has some hand in this? Perhaps you - blinded by her integrity - consider her free of blame too?

But I don't blame Indonesia as much as I do Australia, the boats wouldn't leave there if the carrots weren't dangled.

 

[Sideroxylon]

No sweat, just trying to be helpful



That's a might sharp razor you have there.... for the hair splitting I mean.



Indeed you were, perhaps I should have said "acknowledged" my error. Whatever.



It's all I have left.



I misread - it's been a very long day today.

You blame Indonesia? Nothing for Gillard? Surely she has some hand in this? Perhaps you - blinded by her integrity - consider her free of blame too?

But I don't blame Indonesia as much as I do Australia, the boats wouldn't leave there if the carrots weren't dangled.

Would like to hear more of your thoughts on this. In what ways is Australia encouraging people to arrive by boat? Should we seek any active measures to discourage these people?