BBC now admits al qaeda never existed

Al Qaeda is if I remember correctly a name invented by the US for legal purposes of suing Bin Laden's "organization". If you check any and all videos of Al Zawahiri and Bin Laden, you will find they refer to [Al] Qaeda al Jihad, never as Al Qaeda only. This can also be found back in the (in)famous Letters from Abbottabad. There are rumors that "Al Qaeda" only can be slang in Arabic for "the potty" , but I've not been able to confirm that.

This document is part of a longer letter which was not released to the CTC. It is not clear who authored the letter or to whom it was addressed. It discusses the potential need to change the name of “Qa`idat al-Jihad.” The author is of the view that the abridging of the name “al-Qa`ida” has “lessened Muslims’ feelings that we belong to them.” The author is further concerned that since the name “al-Qa`ida” lacks religious connotations, it has allowed the United States to launch a war on “al-Qa`ida” without offending Muslims. The author proposed a list of new names that capture Islamic theological themes: Ta’ifat al-tawhid wa-al-jihad (Monotheism and Jihad Group), Jama`at wahdat al-Muslimin (Muslim Unity Group), Hizb tawhid al-Umma al-Islamiyya (Islamic Nation Unification Party) and Jama`at tahrir al-aqsa (Al-Aqsa Liberation Group).
I don't have 15 posts so Google the link for yourself
 
twinstead said:
I see you've neglected to answer any of the excellent questions posed to you recently on this thread. Congratulations.
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Not answering questions is Clayton's forte. He employs this technique in all of his threads.
 
000063 said:
Robrob said:
He did the same thing in his "Virus CT" topic.
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???
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That he abandoned his OP when proven wrong.

Simon666 said:
Al Qaeda is if I remember correctly a name invented by theUS for legal purposes of suing Bin Laden's "organization". If you check any and all videos of Al Zawahiri and Bin Laden, you will find they refer to [Al] Qaeda al Jihad, never as Al Qaeda only. This can also be found back in the (in)famous Letters from Abbottabad. There are rumors that "Al Qaeda" only can be slang in Arabic for "the potty" , but I've not been able to confirm that.
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Wrong.

This document is part of a longer letter which was not released to the CTC. It is not clear who authored the letter or to whom it was addressed.
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So you evidence for the US inventing the name is an anonymous letter sent to an anonymous person that discusses what al Qaeda wants to call itself?
 
Simon666 said:
Al Qaeda is if I remember correctly a name invented by the US for legal purposes of suing Bin Laden's "organization". If you check any and all videos of Al Zawahiri and Bin Laden, you will find they refer to [Al] Qaeda al Jihad, never as Al Qaeda only. This can also be found back in the (in)famous Letters from Abbottabad. There are rumors that "Al Qaeda" only can be slang in Arabic for "the potty" , but I've not been able to confirm that.
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Here's Bin Laden explaining the origin of the name 'Al Qaeda' in an interview with Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Allouni:

That particular name is very old. It was born without any intention from us. Brother Abu Ubaida (rahimahullah) al-Banshiri (Panjshiri) [6] created a military base to train the young men to fight against the vicious, arrogant, brutal, terrorizing soviet empire, which was a truth to all observers [al-baghi, al-ghaashim, al-mulhid, al-irhaabi haqiqatan lil mu'aamilin]. So this place was called "The Base" ["Al-Qai`dah"],
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Transcript

One of Bin Laden's mentors from the Afghan Jihad, Abdullah Azzam, wrote an article for 'Jihad' magazine in 1988 titled 'Al Qaeda al Sulbah' (the solid base). Azzam's idea was for a solid core of activists and fighters to act as a vanguard for the establishment of Islamic states throughout the muslim world. Azzam's ideas inspired Bin Laden, it's possible that the name of Bin Laden's own organisation came from this reference and Bin Laden's later explanation in the Al-Jazeera interview is an attempt to portray the organisation as his idea alone. Bin Laden's organisation was conceived more as a kind of 'international brigade' of trained fighters that would assist the overthrow of 'un-islamic' rulers.

Documentary mention of Al Qaeda as an actual organisation occur in the minutes of a meeting held at Bin Laden's house in August 1988, 4 months after the article by Azzam. The document can be found in Peter Bergen's book 'The Osama Bin Laden I know,'
 
poblob14 said:
Hey guys, I just wandered into the CT subfora out of abject boredom . . . and great suff'rin' Christ on a cracker, how do you people stand it? These guys are worse than the Young Earth Creationists.
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You gotta love the anti Christian slurs. Christians seem to be the only fair game at JREF.
 
Clayton Moore said:
You gotta love the anti Christian slurs. Christians seem to be the only fair game at JREF.
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You are aware how many denominations of Christianity there are? Most of them are not Young Earth Creationists. The Catholic Church is undoubtedly the biggest Christian denomination and it doesn't preach YEC nonsense. So how is attacking a theological doctrine rejected by the majority of Christians worldwide being 'anti-Christian'?

Unless you're now saying that the Pope is anti-Christian?
 
Robrob said:
Wrong.
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Why? Because you say so? Give me a reference. I think I could give you one for MY assertion, probably it is in the 9/11 commission report but I would have to look into that.

Robrob said:
So you evidence for the US inventing the name is an anonymous letter sent to an anonymous person that discusses what al Qaeda wants to call itself?
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Strawman. Plus using an excerpt only of what I said. I also said you can check all videos of Bin Laden and Zawahiri. Not ONCE do they refer to themselves as Al Qaeda, but ALWAYS as Qaeda Al Jihad, without being clear whether this is the name of an organization of some sorts or the abstract concept of the "base of the jihad".
 
garethdjb said:
Here's Bin Laden explaining the origin of the name 'Al Qaeda' in an interview with Al Jazeera journalist Tayseer Allouni:
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That interview was never aired on Al Jazeera to my knowledge, but an unverifiable transcript was first released by CNN in 2001 or 2002. I am surprised to see it now available on YouTube, it seems to have been first released in 2011 for some reason? Tayseer Allouni also spent some years in a Spanish jail, probably for the sole reason of having interviewed Bin Laden. He was released only this year. From the transcript I have of that interview:

"...this matter isn't about any specific person and...is not about the al-Qai`dah Organization. We are the children of an Islamic Nation, with Prophet Muhammad as its leader, our Lord is one...and all the true believers [mu'mineen] are brothers. So the situation isn't like the West portrays it, that there is an "organization" with a specific name (such as "al-Qai`dah") and so on. That particular name is very old. It was born without any intention from us. Brother Abu Ubaida... created a military base to train the young men to fight against the vicious, arrogant, brutal, terrorizing Soviet empire... So this place was called "The Base" ["Al-Qai`dah"], as in a training base, so this name grew and became. We aren't separated from this nation. We are the children of a nation, and we are an inseparable part of it, and from those public demonstrations which spread from the far east, from the Philippines, to Indonesia, to Malaysia, to India, to Pakistan, reaching Mauritania... and so we discuss the conscience of this nation.

When not at work, I'll watch the interview with sound on and check whether he mentions Al Qaeda, (Al) Qaeda Al Jihad or Al Qaeda al Sulbah. In any case, you have from the horse's mouth that there is not such an "organization" with a specific name.

garethdjb said:
One of Bin Laden's mentors from the Afghan Jihad, Abdullah Azzam, wrote an article for 'Jihad' magazine in 1988 titled 'Al Qaeda al Sulbah' (the solid base). Azzam's idea was for a solid core of activists and fighters to act as a vanguard for the establishment of Islamic states throughout the muslim world. Azzam's ideas inspired Bin Laden, it's possible that the name of Bin Laden's own organisation came from this reference and Bin Laden's later explanation in the Al-Jazeera interview is an attempt to portray the organisation as his idea alone. Bin Laden's organisation was conceived more as a kind of 'international brigade' of trained fighters that would assist the overthrow of 'un-islamic' rulers.
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Interesting.


garethdjb said:
Documentary mention of Al Qaeda as an actual organisation occur in the minutes of a meeting held at Bin Laden's house in August 1988, 4 months after the article by Azzam. The document can be found in Peter Bergen's book 'The Osama Bin Laden I know,'
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I have my issues with Bergen as a source of anything on Bin Laden.
 
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Simon666 said:
I have my issues with Bergen as a source of anything on Bin Laden.
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And do you have any issues with the document containing the minutes of the AQ meeting? If so, why?

Just for clarification, are you merely taking issue with the name 'Al-Qaeda,' or are you saying that there was no formal jihadist organisation 'led' by Bin Laden at all?
 
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garethdjb said:
And do you have any issues with the document containing the minutes of the AQ meeting? If so, why?
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I haven't seen it, so no. If it is in English, I would object it is possible translation is off. I've seen movies of Al Zawahiri where he clearly speaks of Qaeda al Jihad being put as Al Qaeda in transcript.
 
Simon666 said:
I haven't seen it, so no. If it is in English, I would object it is possible translation is off. I've seen movies of Al Zawahiri where he clearly speaks of Qaeda al Jihad being put as Al Qaeda in transcript.
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So you accept that a group of people met at Bin Laden's house in 1988 to discuss founding a group born out of dissatisfaction with MAK? We can argue about what to call the organisation, or the various ways the term 'Al Qaeda' has been included in terminology throughout that organisation at various times, but you're not doubting the organisation actually existed?
 
garethdjb said:
So you accept that a group of people met at Bin Laden's house in 1988 to discuss founding a group born out of dissatisfaction with MAK?
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I haven't read his book, so I don't know what it claims exactly.


garethdjb said:
We can argue about what to call the organisation, or the various ways the term 'Al Qaeda' has been included in terminology throughout that organisation at various times, but you're not doubting the organisation actually existed?
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What does Bin Laden himself say again?

So the situation isn't like the West portrays it, that there is an "organization" with a specific name (such as "al-Qai`dah") and so on.

I believe there is a group of people maybe working for a common cause, without a specific leadership necessarily. This is also how Al Qaeda is used today in all reports about sunni muslim terrorists, they are all "linked to Al Qaeda", without necessarily being clear what the link is other than being sunni muslim terrorist. I am not sure an actual organization existed, let alone under the name Al Qaeda. The evidence is more thin than many people believe.
 
many of those that do not believe Al-queda exists, believe that the Illuminaten exist :D
 
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