Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Dan O.]

I think this statement by the Sanford Police aptly summarizes Zimmerman's problem: "Attempts by civilians to take any person into custody may result in criminal charges or unnecessary violence." Stupid George should have stayed in his truck.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

He is not supposed to be maintaining a bank account, since the judge believes he's a flight risk. So setting up a dummy account under his father's name would be a clear violation, wouldn't it?

I don't know for sure, but no ?

Don't you suppose his wife, for example, still has bank accounts ? Do you think that perhaps all those accounts are also dummy accounts ? For that matter, what evidence do you have that his fathers account is in fact some sort of dummy account, actually being controlled by GZ ?

Honestly, this ... theory ... sounds a little over the top.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I think this statement by the Sanford Police aptly summarizes Zimmerman's problem: "Attempts by civilians to take any person into custody may result in criminal charges or unnecessary violence." Stupid George should have stayed in his truck.

Evidence GZ tried to take anyone into custody ? Had a history of trying to take people into custody ?

 

[Dan O.]

Evidence GZ tried to take anyone into custody ? Had a history of trying to take people into custody ?

He got out of his truck and there was unnecessary violence. His moving south of the tee is evidence that he was not simply looking for Trayvon but maintaining a physical proximity after they met. Case closed!

Your continual calling for EVIDENCE when the facts have already been presented in this thread shows just how week your position is.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

He got out of his truck and there was unnecessary violence. His moving south of the tee is evidence that he was not simply looking for Trayvon but maintaining a physical proximity after they met. Case closed!

Your continual calling for EVIDENCE when the facts have already been presented in this thread shows just how week your position is.

So the evidence that GZ tried to take TM into custody is:

1) GZ got out of his truck
2) TM hit him
3) After TM hit him, he was south of the tee

But my position (asking for evidence) is weak ....

Gotcha.

 

[Bob001]

....Don't you suppose his wife, for example, still has bank accounts ? Do you think that perhaps all those accounts are also dummy accounts ? For that matter, what evidence do you have that his fathers account is in fact some sort of dummy account, actually being controlled by GZ ?
....

I'm sure you're right. I'm not a GZ supporter, but certainly the fact that he can't have a bank account doesn't mean that his wife, his parents, his lawyer and anybody else who knows him can't have accounts. GZ and his wife have bigger bills now than they have ever had, and they have to pay them somehow. The GZ legal defense fund site is still active, and there's no reason to think that it's not operated independently.

The parents' site is worth visiting, just to read their account of how they had to flee their home to escape the media -- and death threats delivered to their door -- and have had to keep running. No matter how the case turns out, they didn't do anything wrong. Nobody deserves to be treated like this.
http://robertandgladys.com

 

[triforcharity]

You are correct. I will limit my 'likely 17' to be only true if the event happened in the summer after high school, as I understand the story. Maybe it was later in the year, and GZ was 18.

I just have a quick question for you.

Does their age matter?

If someone is touching another individual in a sexual manner, against that other person's will, does it mean it's not rape because they're similar in age?

Now, I am not claiming that is your claim. I just want to know what the **** it matters.

She has accused GZ of touching her inappropriately. I don't give a **** if they're twins, born 14 milliseconds apart. It's ******* wrong.

Plain and simple.

(If it's true, which NONE of us know. )

 

[triforcharity]

You would think if those claims were true that the families would say so. Then again if those claims are false they might have reason to not want to discuss it. See what I did there?

Has any of the Zimmerman family come out and disputed W9's allegations?

I haven't seen any come out and say anything, other than GZ's lawyer.

So, how can any of us know what is being investigated, or what is being discussed within the family?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I just have a quick question for you.

Does their age matter?

If someone is touching another individual in a sexual manner, against that other person's will, does it mean it's not rape because they're similar in age?

Now, I am not claiming that is your claim. I just want to know what the **** it matters.

She has accused GZ of touching her inappropriately. I don't give a **** if they're twins, born 14 milliseconds apart. It's ******* wrong.

Plain and simple.

(If it's true, which NONE of us know. )

IDK the specifics of the law to know if it matters that he had or had not yet reached 18.
So, maybe it matters legally, maybe it doesn't.

Additionally, in general, there are connotations associated with ages - 18 being thought of legally as an adult, and under 18 still being a minor. So it does color the perception of the story to a degree.

It does matter in so far as we might as well be accurate when we can in our descriptions.

 

[Kaosium]

I just have a quick question for you.

Does their age matter?

If someone is touching another individual in a sexual manner, against that other person's will, does it mean it's not rape because they're similar in age?

That's where you ought to start, isn't it? Whether touching between boys and girls roughly the age is considered 'rape?' Last I checked it wasn't, went more or less in the 'normal byproduct of human development' category. Has this changed? I'd be interested in seeing on what basis this occurred.

Now, I am not claiming that is your claim. I just want to know what the **** it matters.

She has accused GZ of touching her inappropriately. I don't give a **** if they're twins, born 14 milliseconds apart. It's ******* wrong.

Plain and simple.

(If it's true, which NONE of us know. )

I've not kept up with this one, so a quick question: has she said anything about this since? Sometimes people get all worked up in a media firestorm and say and do things they regret. Since the 'racism' charges have been revealed as bogus and this charge seems awfully specious on the face of it, I wonder if perhaps it might be unfair to her as well to keep making it an issue as it really has nothing to do with the case? That might have consequences for her and her entire family.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Has any of the Zimmerman family come out and disputed W9's allegations?

Neither disputed nor supported, afaik.

I haven't seen any come out and say anything, other than GZ's lawyer.

So, how can any of us know what is being investigated, or what is being discussed within the family?

OTT was trying to claim this statement as some sort of 'evidence' outside of the victims allegations:

You would think if those claims were false that the families would say so. Then again if those claims are true they might have reason to not want to discuss it

I don't understand why that statement is any better than when I turned it around:

You would think if those claims were true that the families would say so. Then again if those claims are false they might have reason to not want to discuss it

Honestly, I have no clue what I would expect any of the families to do, which is why I am not judging or dismissing the allegations in general. Because we don't have any other information. That being said, what I was discussing last night was the facts that we know surrounding the allegations, not the allegations themselves.

 

[Unabogie]

That's where you ought to start, isn't it? Whether touching between boys and girls roughly the age is considered 'rape?' Last I checked it wasn't, went more or less in the 'normal byproduct of human development' category. Has this changed? I'd be interested in seeing on what basis this occurred.

You think that penetrating young girls is not rape, so long as you are roughly the same age? Does that continue into adulthood, in your view? At what age can a boy rape a girl? Can a 14 year old not rape another 14 year old? I actually can't believe you wrote that.

i've not kept up with this one, so a quick question: has she said anything about this since? Sometimes people get all worked up in a media firestorm and say and do things they regret. Since the 'racism' charges have been revealed as bogus and this charge seems awfully specious on the face of it, I wonder if perhaps it might be unfair to her as well to keep making it an issue as it really has nothing to do with the case? That might have consequences for her and her entire family.

Both his alleged rape victim and his mySpace page show a portrait of a racist (or bigot, for you pedants you will say Mexican is not a race! Mexican is not a race!).

"Bogus" is not accurate at all.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

If someone is touching another individual in a sexual manner, against that other person's will, does it mean it's not rape because they're similar in age?

That's where you ought to start, isn't it? Whether touching between boys and girls roughly the age is considered 'rape?' Last I checked it wasn't, went more or less in the 'normal byproduct of human development' category. Has this changed? I'd be interested in seeing on what basis this occurred.

And what you took away from that was:

You think that penetrating young girls is not rape, so long as you are roughly the same age?

 

[triforcharity]

He is not supposed to be maintaining a bank account, since the judge believes he's a flight risk. So setting up a dummy account under his father's name would be a clear violation, wouldn't it?

Only if that money was being funneled directly to George, without going through the trust account that is being handled by a trustee.

If it's going directly to GZ, and GZ has direct access, it could be a violation.

 

[Kaosium]

You think that penetrating young girls is not rape, so long as you are roughly the same age? Does that continue into adulthood, in your view? At what age can a boy rape a girl? Can a 14 year old not rape another 14 year old? I actually can't believe you wrote that.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said then.

Both his alleged rape victim and his mySpace page show a portrait of a racist (or bigot, for you pedants you will say Mexican is not a race! Mexican is not a race!).

"Bogus" is not accurate at all.

What did the FBI say again?

 

[triforcharity]

That's where you ought to start, isn't it? Whether touching between boys and girls roughly the age is considered 'rape?' Last I checked it wasn't, went more or less in the 'normal byproduct of human development' category. Has this changed? I'd be interested in seeing on what basis this occurred.

You missed a very critical part. Here it is.

"Against the other person's will". It's the basis for any conviction of any kind of physical violence. A person touching another person in a sexual manner, against the other person's will, is either rape, or sexual battery.

And no, it is not normal for two relatives to touch one another sexually into their mid to late teens, and possibly even into adulthood, especially since one of them objected to the sexual contact. That is called sexual battery.

I've not kept up with this one, so a quick question: has she said anything about this since? Sometimes people get all worked up in a media firestorm and say and do things they regret. Since the 'racism' charges have been revealed as bogus and this charge seems awfully specious on the face of it, I wonder if perhaps it might be unfair to her as well to keep making it an issue as it really has nothing to do with the case? That might have consequences for her and her entire family.

Not that I am aware of, no.

Nobody knows the progress of the DOJ investigation into the claims of racial profiling.

But, you're right, it has little bearing on GZ's murder case. However, it does go against GZ's character and possible history of violence.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Only if that money was being funneled directly to George, without going through the trust account that is being handled by a trustee.

You mean the judge ordered that if GZ parents set up a web site, all the money they ever get has to go through GZs trust account ? Where does something (like an order) say that ? No one can give GZ cash ? Or deposit money into his wife's account ???

If it's going directly to GZ, and GZ has direct access, it could be a violation.

What does direct access mean ? Does it mean what it sounds like it means, that his name is on the account ? Because that would clearly be having a bank account, and obviously he's not supposed to ... so yeah, having a bank account would be a violation of the order to not have a bank account...

 

[Kaosium]

You missed a very critical part. Here it is.

"Against the other person's will". It's the basis for any conviction of any kind of physical violence. A person touching another person in a sexual manner, against the other person's will, is either rape, or sexual battery.

What evidence is there it was against her will or there was any violence? I'm wondering just how many 'child rapists' there would be if many years later it could be decided that it was 'against their will' if they were later convinced it was unusual conduct and they were 'abused?' Looks to me more like a case of kissing cousins and her deciding many years later that it was actually all that unusual behavior. Anyone ever been prosecuted in a case with similar parameters? What support do you have for the idea that what she claimed is considered 'rape' by anyone. I'm just curious where this comes from, I was taught something quite different in school.

And no, it is not normal for two relatives to touch one another sexually into their mid to late teens, and possibly even into adulthood, especially since one of them objected to the sexual contact. That is called sexual battery.

They called it 'kissing cousins' once upon a time. Do you suppose society would be best served if we put them all in jail?

Not that I am aware of, no.

Nobody knows the progress of the DOJ investigation into the claims of racial profiling.

But, you're right, it has little bearing on GZ's murder case. However, it does go against GZ's character and possible history of violence.

I doubt it. Sounds to me more like someone getting all worked up by the media firestorm. Should we have an investigation into the entire family for covering up this criminal conspiracy of child rapists? I'm thinking that's getting pretty ridiculous now. It's also the first time I heard anything about a hispanic making fun of fellow hispanics being called 'racism.' That's silly.

 

[This is The End]

Let's try to stick with the one statement that was just posted about. Could his sister have had to leave her job? Well, who the hell knows? There is a tremendous amount of hatred out there towards GZ and his family. It would not be surprising in the least that his family members would be experiencing some of that hatred also directed at them, in fact I'd say it's highly likely that they are. So maybe his sister experienced some of that at work and felt like she couldn't handle it. Or maybe not. We have no idea. So why would anyone want to immediately call her a liar?

So if they all get book deals in a few years will you still deny that there is a possibility that they are taking advantage of the situation?

I doubt that the sister was getting death threats or anything.... But I would almost guarantee she was getting mean comments. So I have to admit that it is plausible that she has a valid reason for leaving her job.

Now the parents setting up a donation fund because they are on the run and can't use credit cards anywhere because they are in fear?? I don't but that one bit. We do know for a fact they are out a ton of bond money tough....

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

They called it 'kissing cousins' once upon a time. Do you suppose society would be best served if we put them all in jail?

Um no, but I think society might be best served to put "sexually assaulting cousins" in jail . To clarify, I have no idea whether these allegations are true, but your statement above is a silly strawman.