Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[shuttlt]

I don't know. I'm not familiar with Sufism. I would guess that truth and falsehood aren't good metrics though.

How can Truth and Falsehood not be a good metric? Is Sufism True of False? Is Islam True, or False? Is Scientology True of False? Are you really experiencing a past life, or are you deluded? Is there no God but Allah, or is there not? Sure there are other things that are important. Perhaps it would be OK to follow a made up religion if it made you happy, but is the underlying Truth or Falsehood really not a good metric of the worth of the religion? If you genuinely hold that there is no particular reason to believe that Thetans, or past lives are literally true, but for what ever reason you like Scientology anyway, then good luck to you.

 

[Jon.]

The CCHR was started by Scientology. They try to promote awareness of violence caused by psychiatric medications.

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

James Holms was on Vicoden.

I couldn't let this pass by. Vicodin is not a psychiatric medication. It is an analgesic. It may have addictive properties, because it contains an opioid, and withdrawal from it may cause some nasty symptoms, but it is not a psychiatric medication.

Scientology's biases with respect to psychiatry and psychiatric medicine are well known (even though LRH was on psychiatric medication when he died), so I wasn't surprised by Justinian2's assertion. However, I was not about to let it pass without comment.

 

[tsig]

Wheatstone bridge is the actual term.

Perhaps those that are shocked at how young girls used to get married, I suggest that counseling or auditing would help.

Great:

A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. Its operation is similar to the original potentiometer.


Now can you explain how measuring the resistance of the human body tells you anything about thoughts, emotions and past lives?

 

[tsig]

Wheatstone bridge is the actual term.

Perhaps those that are shocked at how young girls used to get married, I suggest that counseling or auditing would help.

A 1576 law making it a felony to "unlawfully and carnally know and abuse any woman child under the age of 10 years" was generally interpreted as creating more severe punishments when girls were under 10 years old while retaining the lesser punishment for acts with 10- and 11-year-old girls. Jurist Sir Matthew Hale argued that the age of consent applied to 10- and 11-year-old girls, but most of England's North American colonies adopted the younger age. A small group of Italian and German states that introduced an age of consent in the 16th century also employed 12 years.

So with the proper auditing I can regress to 1576?

 

[shuttlt]

It's a pointless list anyway. It proves nothing just like all the other issue driven data mining trawls though the adverse reaction database prove nothing.

 

[shuttlt]

I struggle to believe marrying a 10 year old girl wouldn't have been far more trouble than it was worth, even in 1576.

 

[Justinian2]

So with the proper auditing I can regress to 1576?

Yes. Perhaps you can experience a past life wedding with a 12 year old. That would have to be a traumatic experience for any man.

You might even be able to find the wedding in the BDM records.

----

I believe that under certain conditions, the skin becomes very sensitive to changes in skin resistance caused by thoughts.

Hubbard's idea is that by passed charge creates surges of electricity in your body/skin.

Hubbard is actually correct because the nerves create tiny electrical currents. I remember looking at some of them with a good digital storage oscilloscope.

 

[Krikkiter]

Yes. Perhaps you can experience a past life wedding with a 12 year old. That would have to be a traumatic experience for any man.

You might even be able to find the wedding in the BDM records.

----

I believe that under certain conditions, the skin becomes very sensitive to changes in skin resistance caused by thoughts.

Hubbard's idea is that by passed charge creates surges of electricity in your body/skin.

Hubbard is actually correct because the nerves create tiny electrical currents. I remember looking at some of them with a good digital storage oscilloscope.

No. There is no evidence those stupid machines do anything other than fleece.

 

[hgc]

A prime example is your use of the word “adherents” when “believer” is a perfectly good word that explains what you mean.

I'm gonna go ahead and take exception to that example. I pick between those two words based on what I mean to say. There's a lot of overlap between adherents and believers, but they're not really the same things.

 

[hgc]

That lacks credibility with anyone who's sat through differential equations.

Ah, Diffy Q's. Yikes!

 

[marplots]

How can Truth and Falsehood not be a good metric? Is Sufism True of False? Is Islam True, or False? Is Scientology True of False? Are you really experiencing a past life, or are you deluded? Is there no God but Allah, or is there not?

The distinction I draw is that the truth value of any of these statements doesn't abrogate any good a particular religion does for an individual, nor does it measure the worth of the religion. An example comes from Catholicism.

I have heard that some previous Pope allowed that evolution was true and the creation story not literally so. Were you surprised that Catholics didn't abandon their faith practice in light of this new information? Hardly. I propose that the truth or falsity of Genesis was not how the religion was evaluated by its followers.

Sure there are other things that are important. Perhaps it would be OK to follow a made up religion if it made you happy, but is the underlying Truth or Falsehood really not a good metric of the worth of the religion? If you genuinely hold that there is no particular reason to believe that Thetans, or past lives are literally true, but for what ever reason you like Scientology anyway, then good luck to you.

If I were a chef who learned my trade at a culinary school where they taught the phlogiston theory of heat, but still managed to cook amazing meals, how should I evaluate my training? Would I say the cooking school was false and without value?

I remember being taught the Bohr atomic model. It explained a great deal about chemical bonds and so on. Later, I was told that the model was false, or if not outright so, less than the more developed picture from quantum theory. Value is not always so easily pinned on true versus false.

 

[The Dark Lord]

How about a word with less baggage? "Brain cleansing" comes to mind.

Surely you are familiar with the notion of suddenly understanding something that was previously obscured? Perhaps calculus suddenly 'clicked' or you turned some inner switch and understood your parents in a new way. It is very personal, but I think it happens now and again to most of us.

Didn't LRon not believe in calculus? lol

 

[AdMan]

Yes. Perhaps you can experience a past life wedding with a 12 year old. That would have to be a traumatic experience for any man.

You might even be able to find the wedding in the BDM records.

----

I believe that under certain conditions, the skin becomes very sensitive to changes in skin resistance caused by thoughts.

Hubbard's idea is that by passed charge creates surges of electricity in your body/skin.

Hubbard is actually correct because the nerves create tiny electrical currents. I remember looking at some of them with a good digital storage oscilloscope.

Hubbard had no idea what he was talking about and was speaking nonsense.

Just like the whole "hold these cans and I will clear you" crap is utterly idiotic.

 

[AdMan]

I discussed southern grandmothers with relatives recently. One got married at 14 and another got married at 13. It was typical of the era. You were an old maid at 16.

If you wanted 12 children, you had to get an early start.

Plus, by thirty, you probably didn't have any teeth and looked like a hag.

This isn't the 19th century.

 

[Chris L]

The distinction I draw is that the truth value of any of these statements doesn't abrogate any good a particular religion does for an individual, nor does it measure the worth of the religion. An example comes from Catholicism.

I have heard that some previous Pope allowed that evolution was true and the creation story not literally so. Were you surprised that Catholics didn't abandon their faith practice in light of this new information? Hardly. I propose that the truth or falsity of Genesis was not how the religion was evaluated by its followers.



If I were a chef who learned my trade at a culinary school where they taught the phlogiston theory of heat, but still managed to cook amazing meals, how should I evaluate my training? Would I say the cooking school was false and without value?

I remember being taught the Bohr atomic model. It explained a great deal about chemical bonds and so on. Later, I was told that the model was false, or if not outright so, less than the more developed picture from quantum theory. Value is not always so easily pinned on true versus false.

So Hubbard, with no knowledge of psychology, brain chemistry, medicine, or any other facet of behavior science just sorta stumbled onto the right path? The Xenu story is more plausible.

 

[Twiler]

No for several reasons. Ever seen a movie of yourself when you were young? I looked like Dick Clark/Harrison Ford.

It's true, however, that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. But if they didn't see beauty in me, game over. I walked away. Screw them!

As I got older, more and more women were attracted to me. From my own experience, 35-55 is the age that women are most attracted to. Perhaps they see $$ and security.

So you don't think they're attracted to you for your personality and virtues?

 

[shuttlt]

The distinction I draw is that the truth value of any of these statements doesn't abrogate any good a particular religion does for an individual, nor does it measure the worth of the religion. An example comes from Catholicism.

I have heard that some previous Pope allowed that evolution was true and the creation story not literally so. Were you surprised that Catholics didn't abandon their faith practice in light of this new information? Hardly. I propose that the truth or falsity of Genesis was not how the religion was evaluated by its followers.



If I were a chef who learned my trade at a culinary school where they taught the phlogiston theory of heat, but still managed to cook amazing meals, how should I evaluate my training? Would I say the cooking school was false and without value?

I remember being taught the Bohr atomic model. It explained a great deal about chemical bonds and so on. Later, I was told that the model was false, or if not outright so, less than the more developed picture from quantum theory. Value is not always so easily pinned on true versus false.

In that case, fine. The whole Space Opera/Thetans thing is almost certainly false, e-meters are woo, etc. etc. but if you happen to believe in it it can be just as valid as any other religion, and just as technically false.

 

[marplots]

In that case, fine. The whole Space Opera/Thetans thing is almost certainly false, e-meters are woo, etc. etc. but if you happen to believe in it it can be just as valid as any other religion, and just as technically false.

I ran a search at scientology.org and couldn't find anything about "xenu."

However, if you would like to get the church's perspective on thetans, here is a short clip: http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology/basic-principles-of-scientology/the-parts-of-man.html

And here is some additional information: http://www.scientology.org/faq/operating-thetan/what-is-ot.html

I find it hard to address issues that arise from sources outside of the church. There seems to be a lot of animosity and it is difficult to filter through that. I am somewhat in the position of a Christian discussing the Bible with people who haven't actually read the Bible, but only some commentary on it.

Certainly not with everyone here, but I can't tell who is who. And, to make it plain, I am no expert on Scientology either. I'm like the Christian who isn't well versed in the Bible -- at least not well enough to qualify as an apologist.

Still, even with these limitations, there are claims we can look at and evaluate. For example, the title of this thread is "Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father" -- to me that is misleading. It has two meanings. The one is that the pair abandoned the institution, which is apparently so. But the other is that they abandoned the belief system, something I do not know and doubt highly. I think this is often the case: the word scientology meant to mean the organization instead of the practice. And I think it causes some confusion.

 

[The Dark Lord]

I ran a search at scientology.org and couldn't find anything about "xenu."

Yeah, they don't tell you that story until you are already thoroughly brainwashed. Xenu is covered in OT-III. If you get that far you've been scammed into the six figures.

 

[marplots]

Yeah, they don't tell you that story until you are already thoroughly brainwashed. Xenu is covered in OT-III. If you get that far you've been scammed into the six figures.

I suppose the only honest thing to do is to withhold judgement until then.