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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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I am not in any way engaged in a vicious or inane attack on Straw Man’s narrative. Don’t forget Straw came to us with his story and I don’t think there is anything wrong in reviewing it or asking him to expand upon parts of it.

It's a handy-dandy way to ignore other pressing questions, Mr Traynor.

Charles Traynor said:
What we have learned thus far from Straw’s account of the liberation of Belsen:

His uncle was an Infantryman.

A few bad apples from the 8th battalion the Rifle Brigade regiment have brought the name of this fine old regiment into disrepute by shooting POWS in the legs and hips for fun.

Did I say they were prisoners of war. These were Waffen-SS troops, and they were armed and fighting back. Where they wanted to deliver their lead was their concern. No mention of unarmed.

Charles Traynor said:
There is now a general consensus amongst JREF members that the British Royal Engineers were using the D4 model of bulldozer at Belsen.

We are still engaged in discussion as to why Infantrymen would have been asked to operate and/or ride on the outside of the one man operated RE bulldozers.

Why? I'm sure there are manifold reasons. How exactly does it fit into your revisionist thinking?

When are you going to address questions asked of you from other posters?
 
Mr Traynor your obsession with the bulldozers used is irrlevenent to this discussion now please provide any evidence at all that the holocaust did not happen
 
My serious research efforts are conducted whilst investigating the alleged Final Solution.
From which you have excluded Zisblatt and Speilberg, right? So:
I have zero interest in looking through old posts at JREF for individuals who were too lazy or ignorant to read the BPs re. Irene Zisblatt.
Why should anyone have believed you about either of these people when you have just stated in so many words that you are not only not serious about them, but feel no need to tell the truth when they are the subject?
 
We are not talking about psychopaths and empathy here. We are talking about a serious breakdown in military discipline, which led to POWs being shot in the legs and hips for fun, according to Straw’s description of the activities of the 8th battalion the Rifle Brigade regiment at Belsen.

Again, Mr Traynor, please tell me where I said that they were unarmed POW's.
 
You will now show where I have ever claimed to be a tough guy.
Unlike trendy urban liberals who like nothing better than having a good cry and a hug when the going gets tough, I have always prided myself on being able to keep my composure in sticky situations.
Either you are saying you are so tough and lacking in humanity that the immediate and personal knowledge of mass murder would not have been a factor in your interactions with those committing them, or that you would be so craven as to have been incapable of action.
We are not talking about psychopaths and empathy here.
Matter of fact, yes we are
We are talking about a serious breakdown in military discipline, which led to POWs being shot in the legs and hips for fun, according to Straw’s description of the activities of the 8th battalion the Rifle Brigade regiment at Belsen.
Really? Where was it stated that these individuals were POWs?

Shall we have to start another count?
 
Again, Mr Traynor, please tell me where I said that they were unarmed POW's.


Straw Man, it is clear from your post #4655 that your uncle shot the guards in the legs and hips. You had all of yesterday to inform myself and others on the forum that we had misinterpreted you if that is not what you intended to write and you did not. Why?

As I said, my Uncle was part of the British lot that liberated Belsen. I was lucky to get the one shot deal of him telling his story. He wasn't out to garner any sympathy from me, in fact, It was one of those moments where he'd kept quiet for over 50 years, and unleashed after we had attended a memorial service at Belsen. He recalled their fight in the area against Waffen SS troops, meeting those who had reached the main camp, not quite believing what they were saying until he got there himself. He talked about the aroma of death that could be smelled in the air two miles away that became an overpowering, cloying stench that stayed with him after they had moved on. The piles of emaciated corpses that lay there unburied, and the emaciated walking dead that begged for food. The children that appeared, wailing with hands outstretched for something to eat. An officer wordlessly handing his crew a couple of bottles of Scotch. Looking for guards who tried to disguise themselves as prisoners, but were easy to find as they were glowing with health, and the realisation that it was far more fun to shoot them in the legs or hips, rather than kill them outright. Being ordered to take your seat on a D-4, and move the empty husks of human beings into a large hole. This was a man who had not spoken (as far as I'm aware) to anyone, and was used to seeing dead bodies, or even creating them. As he said to me, that was not warfare, that was genocide.

[Emphasis mine]


Who are you Straw Man, certainly not the mild mannered airman who claimed to have served at RAF Brüggen, West Germany, during the late 80s? I suppose on the ARSSE forums you are an ex Para or Marine? Who knows or cares? Actually I always suspected you were from the other side of the pond.

If you are a JREF exterminationist troll then I hope some of the others here are as disgusted by your vile behaviour as I am. How dare you implicate a fine regiment like the 8th battalion the Rifle Brigade in war crimes to further the vile holohoax lie.
 
Really? Where was it stated that these individuals were POWs?


Are you now claiming Belsen was not surrendered to the British or just playing your usual game of messing with the semantics of posts in a vain attempt the obfuscate the truth?
 
Either you are saying you are so tough and lacking in humanity that the immediate and personal knowledge of mass murder would not have been a factor in your interactions with those committing them, or that you would be so craven as to have been incapable of action.


What mass murder?
 
I'd like to suggest that you review your MA, especially rules 0 and 12.

Your arguments, such as they are, *are* fun to rip to shreds and bury in the back yard, and there are so few deniers who can co-exist in a civil environment long enough to provide that level of entertainment...


Name one serious holohoax argument I have made that you or anyone else has shredded or buried in any back yard since I came here. When it comes to the serious stuff all you guys can do is troll.
 
Are you now claiming Belsen was not surrendered to the British or just playing your usual game of messing with the semantics of posts in a vain attempt the obfuscate the truth?

Neither.

These guards were hiding.

They were not POWs by virtue of that.

You're really not terribly good at this, are you?
 
Are you now claiming Belsen was not surrendered to the British or just playing your usual game of messing with the semantics of posts in a vain attempt the obfuscate the truth?

If they were disguising themselves as and hiding among the camp inmates, they obviously hadn't surrendered to the British and were therefore not POWs, were they?

Talk about "messing with the semantics of posts in a vain attempt the obfuscate the truth"...
 
"vile Holohoax lie"

This looks like empty rhetoric to me from a Far Right Extremist.


The regular labelling of holocaust revisionists as anti-Semites or right wing extremists is another questionable tactic and a means of attempting to silence those who question the official version of WWII history. Have you no shame?
 
Name one serious holohoax argument I have made that you or anyone else has shredded or buried in any back yard since I came here. When it comes to the serious stuff all you guys can do is troll.

That Zisblatt and Speilberg are of any great importance in relating the facts about the Holocaust. Zisblatt is hardly known, the Speilberg film is hardly known and two people who have lied about the facts of the Holocaust have been buried in obscurity and are not taken seriously by any Holocaust historian.

So your claims that they are spreading vile lies about the Holocaust, whilst true, is not of any great significance and there are far more issues of importance to be dealt with, such as your vile lies about the supposed Holohoax.

Please come out with some serious evidenced claims about the Holocaust, not types of Buldozers, lets start with your comment "what mass murder" and see how you evidence what happened at Belsen was not mass murder. I have already asked you about that, but it was dodged as I believe you are unable to evidence your claims, as usual.
 
The regular labelling of holocaust revisionists as anti-Semites or right wing extremists is another questionable tactic and a means of attempting to silence those who question the official version of WWII history. Have you no shame?

Please name revisonist/deniers who are not anti-semitic and/or right wing extremists.

Why is calling someone an anti-semite an attempt silence them?
 
If they were disguising themselves as and hiding among the camp inmates, they obviously hadn't surrendered to the British and were therefore not POWs, were they?

Talk about "messing with the semantics of posts in a vain attempt the obfuscate the truth"...


It is a historical FACT that Belsen was surrendered to the British, and I'd be hiding too if I had seen my comrades being brutalized in front of my eyes.

Just because a POW is scared is not an excuse to shoot him in the legs or hips.
 
Straw Man, it is clear from your post #4655 that your uncle shot the guards in the legs and hips. You had all of yesterday to inform myself and others on the forum that we had misinterpreted you if that is not what you intended to write and you did not. Why?

Again, picking, picking, picking. Yes I did write it, and I'm going to leave it as such. I'm not going to start going changing stories.


Charles Traynor said:
Who are you Straw Man, certainly not the mild mannered airman who claimed to have served at RAF Brüggen, West Germany, during the late 80s? I suppose on the ARSSE forums you are an ex Para or Marine? Who knows or cares? Actually I always suspected you were from the other side of the pond.

I know who I am, where I served and what I did, and obviously you are not aware that people can move throughout the world. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's a load of old pony. Your pathetic attempt of an attack on my good self means absolutely nothing.

Charles Traynor said:
If you are a JREF exterminationist troll then I hope some of the others here are as disgusted by your vile behaviour as I am. How dare you implicate a fine regiment like the 8th battalion the Rifle Brigade in war crimes to further the vile holohoax lie.

I'm an exterminationist troll, am I? Really? My vile behaviour?

Am I the one who is trying to make what happened in Germany to not only the Jews, but homosexuals, political opponents, gypsies, etc. some sort of huge hoax? I do not think so.

I'm actually surprised you decided to even come here seeing as you have no respect for anyone here.

It is well known that revisionists trying to debate at JREF, more often than not, have their posts buried under tons of BS by Hasbara activists and emotionally based trolling by the many uninformed, and very, very stupid and ignorant posters who seem to make up the majority of the current JREF membership
 
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