General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Horatius]

Whom exactly is supposed to be convinced by this post Dog?

Time to reference Myriad's thread on the Masochistic lie.

 

[Belz...]

Oh no. Just anti-zionists

 

[LemmyCaution]

Dogzilla's changing from this

00063: X is true but I don't have any evidence that X is true

to this

00063: X is true but I don't have any evidence that you accept as compelling evidence that X is true

is pretty much conceding the point whilst rewriting it: What evidence could 000063 produce that would be accepted by Dogzilla? After all, confronted with mountains of evidence which he generally tries to call "no evidence," Dogzilla has shown a persistent ability to ignore, distort, and handwave it all away - that is, to refuse to accept evidence based not on problems with the evidence but on the evidence's problems for his cherished, unshakeable, and almost unexplainable convictions. Like faith.

 

[000063]

OK. Let's try it this way:

in·cre·du·li·ty/ˌinkrəˈdo͞olitē/
Noun:
The state of being unwilling or unable to believe something.
Synonyms:
disbelief - unbelief - scepticism - distrust - mistrust


00063: X is true but I don't have any evidence that you accept as compelling evidence that X is true.

Dogzilla: If you don't have any evidence that I accept as compelling evidence that X is true, I am unable and unwilling to believe that X is true.

00063: Isn't the fact that I believe the evidence is compelling enough of a reason for you to accept it as compelling evidence?

Dogzilla: No.

00063: Then the only reason you are unwilling or unable to believe that X is true is because you do not accept the evidence that I believe is compelling evidence that X is true?

Dogzilla: Yes. But if you don't have any evidence that I accept as compelling evidence that X is true, I don't need any other reason to be unable to believe that X is true.

I guess 00063 thinks that we should believe everything is true as long as somebody somewhere believes there is compelling evidence that it is true. Or is your philosophy tempered somewhat by believing that evidence that somebody doesn't accept as compelling should be accepted anyway as long as alot of other people believe it is compelling?

False, and false premise. I'm not sure who you were talking to in the second sentence, since the first wasn't directed at me.

See, I understand the difference between not having evidence that X is true and not having evidence that I believe is compelling evidence that X is true.

I disagree. You do not know the difference, and have demonstrated that repeatedly.

However, I don't think you understand the similarity.

Actually, I do. One is an absence of evidence, the other is an unwillingness to accept evidence presented. You keep trying to conflate the two. I have said, repeatedly, that your personal incredulity is not actually evidence.

That is, neither of them are a good reason to accept that X is true.

Appeal to ignorance, appeal to incredulity. Terry is right; that is what I mean when I say "incredulity", which you have admitted is all you have. You are not merely saying that you don't accept X as true, you are saying/implying that X is false. That's an affirmative claim, and one which requires, y'know, evidence. As has been said time and time again, the vast body of evidence for the holocaust requires some sort of explanation before it can be discounted. And no, "Team Holocaust did it" is not an explanation, for various reasons explained throughout the thread. Here's another one: wouldn't some of the Jews organizing it themselves have relatives who were allegedly killed? How did they organize this massive hoax during and right after a World War?

Oh, look, you still can't provide evidence that I actually said what you claimed I said, and continue to incorrectly attribute beliefs to me. Haven't you noticed that people disagree with your interpretations of their position all the time? Do you really think that so many people who interact with you just happen to be at fault?

 

[OCaptain]

Now tell everyone where are/were all the people with a conscience who worked at the camps or lived nearby the camps who were aware of some of the millions who were allegedly gassed? Do you think they were abducted by aliens?

How does this prove the Holocaust didn't happen, Clayton?

 

[Straw Man]

Now tell everyone where are/were all the people with a conscience who worked at the camps or lived nearby the camps who were aware of some of the millions who were allegedly gassed? Do you think they were abducted by aliens?

How does this prove the Holocaust didn't happen, Clayton?

Perhaps Clayton would be able to enlighten us to what they would have done?

 

[TSR]

Perhaps Clayton would be able to enlighten us to what they would have done?

Blown up like walking time bombs.

Oh, no, wait -- they weren't Jewish, so they would have just rolled over.

 

[000063]

Blown up like walking time bombs.

Oh, no, wait -- they weren't Jewish, so they would have just rolled over.

No, they weren't Jewish civilians. The Jewish POWs were apparently immune to this murderous rage and not at risk.

I like how Clay says they would've been both murderously angry, and yet capable of poisoning the Nazis soup in premeditated fashion. I would think it would be more efficient to just stab one with a steak knife.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Blown up like walking time bombs.

Oh, no, wait -- they weren't Jewish, so they would have just rolled over.

Because, according to the always insightful commentator on human pyschology, Clayton Moore,

Ostracizing and threats of death work well 99.44% of the time.

 

[Dcdrac]

The Holocaust Denial Conspiracy

The so called historical revisionists are nothing more than a loose cabal of conspiracy nutters who make sweeping statements devoid of any evidence to back up their positions nor any internal logic that stands up to close examination.

As has been evidenced in this very forum they display utter ignorance of the matter being discussed.

 

[000063]

Yes, we know. Why did we need a new thread?

 

[Nessie]

To vent frustrations caused by dealing with closed minded ignoramuses who have an agenda rather than desire for the truth.

 

[scratchy]

To make the thread title a little more to the point, we could discuss if the holocaust denial actually isnt a conspiracy in itself, one that actually exist. It is sometimes rather obvious that at least the leading figures of holocaust denial is fabricating and willfully lying, one could even say conspiring.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Also water is wet and fire is hot.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Well, there is an organised effort to discredit the evidence and replace it with obviously flawed arguments and cherry picked snippets that do not represent the whole.

I guess it could be argued that any organised effort between more than one person or group is a conspiracy.

 

[TSR]

To bring this back where it is actually on-topic:

Yeah sure. And I'm offended by the lying Zionists and the lying Zionist hugging fabricators who accuse most all of Europe, the Catholic Church, the USA, the IRC and others of being complicit to an imaginary Holocaust.

Of course, that no one is making that accusation doesn't seem to matter much to you, nor that no one here AFAICR has offered an opinion on Zionism other than deniers.

I can't wait for the day the Holocaust lies are exposed to everyone.

Pretty much every time you post, another lie is exposed.

Or course, they all seem to be *yours*. Like, for example, your use of "Zionist" above, when you very obviously mean "Jooos".

What did happen to the Jewish people of that time was cruel and unfair but it was no Holocaust, no attempt to exterminate the Jewish people of Europe.

So, in your lofty opinion, what *did* "happen", and why even as you try to minimize it can you not bring yourself to say "what the Nazis did" as opposed to the more impersonal "what happened"?

 

[Multivac]

Number four is a pretty good one but it doesn't beat Belsen. If there were more of these why did they bother with a pile of suitcases?

Because a competent photographer, trying to document a scene, would take as many photos as he he could of anything and everything that would help to make sense of what they found.

 

[Multivac]

Thankyou Dogzilla, Clayton Moore and Snake Tongue

Apologies if this is a bit long winded, but wanted to thank forum members for helping to increase my knowledge and understanding of the holocaust.

I didn't take history as an exam subject at school, so my formal learning about history stopped when I was 14.

The holocaust, to me, has always been something that must be remembered to serve as a reminder of how cruel people can be to each other and the dangers of blindly following orders issued by a charismatic leader. It shows how easy it seems to be to get a large section of a country performing despicable acts on other people once you have convinced them that the victims are less than fully human.

Over the years I've watched documentaries about the holocaust, including the excellent dramatisation of the Wannsee conference produced by the BBC, but it is only recently that my interest has increased into a need to know exactly what happened.

This increase in interest is largely due to reading posts in this thread, so I would really like to thank Clayton Moore, Dogzilla, Snake Tongue and the long lost Saggy for reviving my interest. Having read their desperate attempts to deny the holocaust, I have read the information, and links to original documents, posted by Dcdrac, Nick Terry, LemmyCaution and many other knowledgable posters that provide the real history of the holocaust.

As a consequence, I've ordered these books from Amazon, as a bit of light summer reading to further my understanding.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denying-Holocaust-Growing-Assault-Memory/dp/0452272742/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342776260&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Auschwitz-The-Nazis-Final-Solution/dp/0563522968/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342776426&sr=8-1

Also found some interesting and useful information on the Axis History forum, in the holocaust and war crime section.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=4c2ffcc7eaa4dd7189fe1e39f242ea2b

And the Holocaust Controversies site.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/

Only found these two websites at the weekend, so haven't delved fully into them yet.

Also found many hate-filled denier sites that REALLY don't like Nick Terry, and do their best to discredit him. Obviously, to any reasonable person, they fail miserably.

So, thankyou to all of the posters in this thread, including the deniers as their pathetic arguements are doing such an excellent job of confirming that the holocaust happened!

 

[Clayton Moore]

Apologies if this is a bit long winded, but wanted to thank forum members for helping to increase my knowledge and understanding of the holocaust.

I didn't take history as an exam subject at school, so my formal learning about history stopped when I was 14.

The holocaust, to me, has always been something that must be remembered to serve as a reminder of how cruel people can be to each other and the dangers of blindly following orders issued by a charismatic leader. It shows how easy it seems to be to get a large section of a country performing despicable acts on other people once you have convinced them that the victims are less than fully human.

Over the years I've watched documentaries about the holocaust, including the excellent dramatisation of the Wannsee conference produced by the BBC, but it is only recently that my interest has increased into a need to know exactly what happened.

This increase in interest is largely due to reading posts in this thread, so I would really like to thank Clayton Moore, Dogzilla, Snake Tongue and the long lost Saggy for reviving my interest. Having read their desperate attempts to deny the holocaust, I have read the information, and links to original documents, posted by Dcdrac, Nick Terry, LemmyCaution and many other knowledgable posters that provide the real history of the holocaust.

As a consequence, I've ordered these books from Amazon, as a bit of light summer reading to further my understanding.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denying-Holocaust-Growing-Assault-Memory/dp/0452272742/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342776260&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Auschwitz-The-Nazis-Final-Solution/dp/0563522968/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342776426&sr=8-1

Also found some interesting and useful information on the Axis History forum, in the holocaust and war crime section.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=4c2ffcc7eaa4dd7189fe1e39f242ea2b

And the Holocaust Controversies site.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.co.uk/

Only found these two websites at the weekend, so haven't delved fully into them yet.

Also found many hate-filled denier sites that REALLY don't like Nick Terry, and do their best to discredit him. Obviously, to any reasonable person, they fail miserably.

So, thankyou to all of the posters in this thread, including the deniers as their pathetic arguements are doing such an excellent job of confirming that the holocaust happened!

Good work. Who's claim to fame in this world is saying everyone hates them?

Sounds problematic from the git go.

The Holocaust huggers completely ignore the physical labor the Holocaust lies require. The Holocaust huggers accuse almost every non Jewish organization in Europe of being complicit or of looking the other way while millions Jewish people were allegedly being exterminated.

 

[Nick Terry]

The Holocaust huggers completely ignore the physical labor the Holocaust lies require.

That would be 'completely ignore' as in there are whole books on the Sonderkommandos, death camps, Aktion 1005, railways and Ordnungspolizei which you haven't read?

The Holocaust huggers accuse almost every non Jewish organization in Europe of being complicit or of looking the other way while millions Jewish people were allegedly being exterminated.

please link to such a statement made on this thread or retract it. The only people accused of complicity in the Holocaust on this thread are the Nazis and their collaborators.