And the boats keep coming

Sideroxylon said:
You admit that there isn't a queue yet insist on using that term.
Click to expand...

Until I have a better word, sure.

Sideroxylon said:
Politicians and others should stop using these deceptive words that do nothing more than demonize those who arrive on boats. It makes it easier to sell harsh policies though.
Click to expand...

That is possible, I guess.
I take exception though to the accusation (implied or otherwise) that everyone who uses that term (in the absence of something better) is trying to demonise anyone.

But what would you call it when people have to wait for an opportunity to come here and there are only limited places? In essence they have to wait their turn.

Give me a different term to use and I will use it.

The lack of more accurate wording does not mean the issue does not exist.
 
Last edited:
A.A. Alfie said:
Until I have a better word, sure.
Click to expand...

A better lable to a phenomena that you admit doesn't exist. Why?


That is possible, I guess.
I take exception though to the accusation (implied or otherwise) that everyone who uses that term (in the absence of something better) is trying to demonise anyone.
Click to expand...

If you insist on a word that does nothing more than appeal to our sense of fair play then that is what you are doing.

But what would you call it when people have to wait for an opportunity to come here and there are only limited places? In essence they have to wait their turn.
Give me a different term to use and I will use it.
The lack of more accurate wording does not mean the issue does not exist.
Click to expand...

I suggest you don't characterize the actions of these people in such simplistic and emotional ways.
 
Big big sigh.

Do people miss out on a chance to get to Australia because others beat them to it (eg. come by boat)? The answer is a definite and emphatic yes.

If you do not wish me (or others) to call it a queue, then let's give it another name. If not, I will continue to call it the "proverbial queue" and simply ignore all protests.

Fair enough?
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Big big sigh.

Do people miss out on a chance to get to Australia because others beat them to it (eg. come by boat)? The answer is a definite and emphatic yes.

If you do not wish me (or others) to call it a queue, then let's give it another name. If not, I will continue to call it the "proverbial queue" and simply ignore all protests.

Fair enough?
Click to expand...

Is there an actual queue that they are aware of jumping and therefore guilty of such an "unAustralian" act? No.

I was more focused on the politicians and political commentators. You can make your own call.
 
Last edited:
bit_pattern said:
How come we never here about all the "queue jumpers" who arrive at our airports every year and outnumber boat arrivals a factor of 10?
Click to expand...

Because they either have the documentation to get the visa, or have the money to pay someone for forged documents to get the visa. Apparently it's only bad if you pay people smugglers to come to this country.
 
Wildy said:
Because they either have the documentation to get the visa, or have the money to pay someone for forged documents to get the visa. Apparently it's only bad if you pay people smugglers to come to this country.
Click to expand...

"Forged documents"? Citations please.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Big big sigh.

Do people miss out on a chance to get to Australia because others beat them to it (eg. come by boat)? The answer is a definite and emphatic yes.

If you do not wish me (or others) to call it a queue, then let's give it another name. If not, I will continue to call it the "proverbial queue" and simply ignore all protests.

Fair enough?
Click to expand...
Bloody hell, they are refugees, there is nothing orderly about how they leave their homeland and how they arrive at their preferred port.
I am sure a lot of people who flee their homelands are just happy to be out of danger. Where they eventually end up, they may not put much thought to it, they are desperate remember. Maybe a lot of them are hoping to go home when things settle down, I don't know.
The words you want are probably "desperate refugees", not a queue.
 
So why does one "desperate refugee" get the nod ahead of another "desperate refugee"? Are those that have means and geography somehow more desperate than those that don't?

I also wonder at the "queue" idea when our esteemed leader uses the term. Surely if it is good enough for her....

Gillard said of the Malaysian Solution
http://www.news.com.au/national/car...-asylum-solution/story-e6frfkw9-1226228380452

The key message this will deliver to people smugglers and those seeking to make the dangerous sea voyage to Australia is: do not get on that boat.Under this arrangement, if you arrive in Australian waters and are taken to Malaysia you will go to the back of the queue.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
"Forged documents"? Citations please.
Click to expand...

Refugee Council:

Refugee Council said:
Such people are called asylum seekers. Those who come to Australia have usually entered with a visitors', student or other temporary visa. Some arrive with no documents or with false documents.

Arriving without appropriate papers should not be interpreted as an attempt to defraud the system. By definition, refugees are people who are at risk of persecution. In most cases, the agent of persecution is their government. Applying for a passport and/or an exit visa can be far too dangerous for some refugees; so too can be an approach to an Australian Embassy for a visa. These actions can put their lives, and those of their families, at risk. In such cases refugees may have to travel on forged documents or bypass regular migration channels and arrive without papers.
Click to expand...

Or this SMH article:

SMH said:
For asylum seekers who arrive by plane, the process is markedly different.

They have passports and a visa, usually a tourist, business or student visa, although some of the documentation would be fake.

The fake documents often cost up to $US2000, and occasionally more, Mr Karapanagiotidis said. These asylum seekers frequently came from Iran, Zimbabwe and Burma.
Click to expand...
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Gillard said of the Malaysian Solution
http://www.news.com.au/national/car...-asylum-solution/story-e6frfkw9-1226228380452

The key message this will deliver to people smugglers and those seeking to make the dangerous sea voyage to Australia is: do not get on that boat.Under this arrangement, if you arrive in Australian waters and are taken to Malaysia you will go to the back of the queue.
Click to expand...
What!!
You are quoting the worst Prime Minister ever.
No one is listening to her.
No one takes any notice of the worst Prime Minister ever.
Did you not know that Alfie.
Still no evidence of a queue.
 
a_unique_person said:
The Somali refugee population is quite large now, in Australia. They haven't been coming by boat, so they must have come here in other ways. Alfie's concern is a little over stated.
Click to expand...

Firstly please provide some evidence, citations and a reason why you believe this nonsense.
Second, are the numbers below understated in terms of concern?
Third, the Somalian situation is just one example of people being pushed further back in the QUEUE by others.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wor...-in-kenyas-dadaab-camp-aid-agencies-warn.html

Last year’s famine in southern Somalia saw Dadaab’s population swell by 160,000 to its present 465,000. As a result, Dadaab is running desperately short of funds for food and vital services, according to an appeal by eight aid agencies, including Oxfam and Save the Children.

The organizations warned that they face a $25-million shortfall for their humanitarian operations in the coming three months, putting 200,000 refugees at risk. From September, 50,000 refugees will have no water and sanitation facilities, according to the agencies, unless fresh funding arrives.

They also warned that 130,000 people could soon be without adequate shelter, living in flimsy plastic structures that deteriorate quickly in the harsh weather.
 
Last edited:
A.A. Alfie said:
In the absence of something more accurate, it will suffice. I will ignore the protests on same pending something better.
Click to expand...

So you are happy to hold these people to account for failing to adhere to a principal of behavior that by your own admission does not apply. There is no queue that these people can be reasonably expected to be aware of. Further it is easy to argue that they should not be thought of badly for jumping a queue even if a well defined one existed.

Branding asylum seekers who arrive illegally by boats as "queue jumpers" demonises them in a cheap appeal to the popular Australian principle of fair play and makes it easy to apply harsh policies against them.
 
Last edited:
Sideroxylon said:
Branding asylum seekers who arrive illegally by boats as "queue jumpers" demonises them in a cheap appeal to the popular Australian principle of fair play and makes it easy to apply harsh policies against them.
Click to expand...

Illegally? I'd have thought illegal an even worse a pejorative than queue jumper.

So be it then: "Illegal asylum seeker" it is. As opposed to the legal ones from (say) Somalia.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom