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And Australia's most popular political leader is... [cue drum-roll]

A.A. Alfie said:
Perhaps.
It seems that Datayari, Howes and many others are (or have been) of a similar "clueless" nature.
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No they haven't. The preference debate has been raging within the ALP for at least three electoral cycles now. Just because this is the first you have heard of an issue don't assume that everyone else is as clueless as yourself.
 
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bit_pattern said:
No they haven't. The preference debate has been raging within the ALP for at least three electoral cycles now.
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Some citations would be appreciated.

My point stands however, they are now talking about it openly. Moreover, the love media is reporting it.
 
The kicking continues:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-09/combet-distances-labor-from-greens/4117706

Now Mr Combet has responded to questions about Labor's relationship with the Greens, saying the two parties have different values.

"The Labor Party is a different political organisation with a long and proud history," he told the ABC.

"We've been enormously important in the history of this country. The Greens are some other show, I'm not interested in them.


Does he kick his PM here too?

Mr Combet said the issue of preferencing was determined at the organisational level of the Labor Party.

And he rejected the notion that the two parties had an "alliance" at a federal level.

"The Prime Minister negotiated an arrangement with the Greens and with independents to be able to form a government," he said.
 
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Senior sources in Labor's Left faction said Mr Dastyari's announcement of a motion distancing the party from the Greens was a classic attempt to "wedge" the Left in the run-up to the annual conference. The sources said the faction would make its views clear but would adopt a "nuanced" position.

"We're open to an attack on the Greens party, but not on the policies that Greens voters support," one source said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ssault-on-greens/story-fn59niix-1226420640641
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Everyone, Greens included, are strategically posturing for the inevitable wipe-out of the Gillard government sometime between now and 2013. The Greens are right to look beyond propping up a doomed government and focus on shoring up their base, now is not the time for them to compromise their values for a lost cause. By not taking a principled stand on asylum seekers they would alienate their base, their vote won't increase if they compromise now and by standing firm then they should ensure their vote doesn't go backwards. They'd be foolish to do anything else.
 
bit_pattern said:
Everyone, Greens included, are strategically posturing for the inevitable wipe-out of the Gillard government sometime between now and 2013. The Greens are right to look beyond propping up a doomed government and focus on shoring up their base, now is not the time for them to compromise their values for a lost cause. By not taking a principled stand on asylum seekers they would alienate their base, their vote won't increase if they compromise now and by standing firm then they should ensure their vote doesn't go backwards. They'd be foolish to do anything else.
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Their "principled stand" as you call it is killing people in the ocean (up to 800 so far).
You are advocating they put politics before these people's lives.

And the greens claim moral superiority.
I think I am going to be sick.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
You are advocating they put politics before these people's lives.
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I'm not advocating anything, I'm outlining the cold, hard political reality of the situation, while trying to elevate the tone of the political debate in these threads beyond hysterically pitched partisan hyperbole and emotive hand wringing that typifies the narrative with which you try to dominate the discussion.
 
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bit_pattern said:
Trust me, we're not losing any sleep over what you or your ilk think about us :)
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Of course not. It's guys like these that will cut your lunch:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-09/labor-left-weighs-into-greens-attack/4119390

Doug Cameron

"The Greens' intransigence, their lack of flexibility, their complete incapacity to take a mature approach on key issues is the major problem for me, and I don't think that's a good thing for the left of politics," he said.

"Hopefully we can move from a position where we are reliant on people that are intransigent and immature," he said.
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Intransigent: not willing to compromise; obstinately maintaining an attitude, stubborn
n also in'transigentist
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an intransigent person, esp in politics
[from Spanish los intransigentes the uncompromising (ones), a name adopted by certain political extremists
Immature: deficient in maturity; lacking wisdom, insight, emotional stability, etc

He got that right: stubborn, extremist, lacking wisdom and emotional stability. He forgot moronic.
 
Whack! Whack whack!

The attack numbers are mounting

SENIOR Labor Left figures have backed calls for the party to take a tougher line against the Greens as members of all factions lashed the minor party for its stance on offshore processing and contempt for blue-collar workers…

Labor Left faction convenor Stephen Jones said he expected that NSW general secretary Sam Dastyari’s motion to take a tough line on Greens preferences would pass the state conference.

“When the asylum-seeker legislation was in the Senate, the Greens had the choice between being a protest movement or a parliamentary party,” Mr Jones said. “They chose to continue to be a protest movement.”


Human Services Minister Kim Carr, also from the party’s Left and a member of the national executive, accused the Greens of having “the best social conscience that money can buy” and having a “smug and self-righteous attitude on many blue-collar issues”.
 
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bit_pattern said:
I'm not advocating anything, I'm outlining the cold, hard political reality of the situation, while trying to elevate the tone of the political debate in these threads beyond hysterically pitched partisan hyperbole and emotive hand wringing that typifies the narrative with which you try to dominate the discussion.
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I'm not the only one who thinks you and the Greens are putting politics ahead of lives.

The Greens policy (which is what we effectively have) has cost up to 800 lives so far. These policies will kill more people and the Green leaders sAY "accidents happen".

GOVERNMENT senator Glenn Sterle has accused the Greens of putting their political self-interest ahead of saving lives, saying they had shown they had ''no desire to contribute to good and stable government''.

And while a bit early to define a trend, the recent deaths and the inflexibility of the greens seems to be costing them ground.

Yesterday's Newspoll showed Greens support falling by a point to 11 per cent, while Labor's primary vote rose by a point to 31 per cent and the Coalition increased by 2 points to 48 per cent.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...terests-ahead-of-lives-mp-20120710-21u2z.html
 
More evidence that the greens disturbingly put politics ahead of lives:

THE Greens have been caught trying to promote the asylum seeker crisis as political bait to attract new members to its youth wing.
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Hmm.

When shown the minutes, the president of Young Labor, Michael Buckland, said he was disgusted. "These documents reveal their unashamed motives," he said.

"The issue of asylum seekers is a matter of life and death; it is not a way to market and attract new members to the Greens. These minutes are simply disturbing, disappointing and shameful."
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I agree with Buckalnd.


This is a bit odd too .

Secret minutes of a meeting on June 30 also revealed that the leadership of the Australian Young Greens party wanted to push for a public debate on polyamorous marriage, which allows people to have several wives or husbands.
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The party of the morally corrupt.
 
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http://thehoopla.com.au/greens-gutless-luxury-brand/

More whacks. This time from Sandra Nori: former NSW Labor MP.

WHY THE GREENS ARE GUTLESS

I regard them as destructive opportunists, not interested in governing and fundamentally, gutless.

Their unique selling proposition is their purity and they are not going to give it up as a matter of survival and political expediency. I just wish they would admit it because anyone who has seen them up close knows it to be true.
They know they cannot afford to be seen for the politicians that they are.
To me that is the ultimate fraud. Pretending not to be politicians.

And this.

The Greens NEED us to believe they are special, they NEED to feel that have the moral high ground, even in the case of asylum seekers. Better they die at sea than support the PM’s compromise.

Quite.
 
The funny thing is that this is just helping the Green's. Labor is wedging itself. For the NSW Right, the faction with direct responsibility for Labor's current predicament, the people who assassinated their own PM in the dark of night, to attack the progressive values of the party to which those disgusted by the coup have largely defected to will simply entrench the divorcement and split the Left vote for a generation. Not to mention that following through with the preference threats would do nothing but deliver Abbott an historic absolute majority over both Houses. It would be a slaughter of QLD proportions, and considering the state of the Labor membership base it would probably be several generations, if ever, before we saw another Labor government.
 
A.A. Alfie said:
I regard them as destructive opportunists, not interested in governing and fundamentally, gutless.
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That's an hilariously ironic lack of self awareness coming from a NSW Labor MP! :D

Sussex St is the cancer in the party machine that is sending the ALP into death throes.
 
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bit_pattern said:
That's an hilariously ironic lack of self awareness coming from a NSW Labor MP! :D

Sussex St is the cancer in the party machine that is sending the ALP into death throes.
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Maybe - but they are giving the Greens the whacking of a lifetime. :D

A whacking they thoroughly deserve and is way overdue. The Greens whackaloon policies have been left very much under examined by the media and the general public.

The Greens will be a spent force by the end of two election cycles I predict (and hope). Labor have finally woken up to the fact that the extreme-left-Greens have been cutting their lunch for too long and are now setting out to systematically destroy them, just as Howard did to Hanson. We are seeing the start of that destruction now: They have begun with some minor public floggings to get a taste of public reaction, next is preferences, after that ... who knows?... Maybe the outing of Milne as the communist she is?

I actually wonder too whether it is because Bob Brown (for whatever reason) was someone that Labor did not wish to attack openly (fear of some homophobic dog whistle accusations? something else?). And with his departure and the ascension of the chief watermelon suddenly it is open slather.

Interesting, no?
 
A.A. Alfie said:
Maybe - but they are giving the Greens the whacking of a lifetime

(...)

The Greens will be a spent force by the end of two election cycles I predict
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Greens have been copping a "whacking" ever since their inception, yet their vote has grow steadily, doubling in size in almost every election since 2001. Political wonks have been predicting the demise of the Greens since their inception, yet instead they have entrenched themselves in all three levels of government, in unique and diverse electoral environments, across the whole country and are slowly but surely reshaping the face of progressive politics in this country.

Crow all you want. I am happy to bet my credibility on the Greens maintaining their polling position (10% - 12%, depending on the pollster, 1.6 million Australians who, if we had proportional representation in this country, would have more like 12 seats in the lower house, rather than just one) right up until the next election. And I am quietly confident that they will pick up one or two extra Senate seats in Victoria and NSW. For all your posturing and triumphalism, the Greens will be there tomorrow. As Labor burns and falls apart the natural party of progressives will be there to pick up the pieces and forge a new paradigm of left wing politics from the their ashes.


Interesting, no?
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No.
 
You sound like you are trying to convince yourself.

The whacks will keep coming, the free ride is over.
 
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